mixed messages about MA

solodare

Active member
May 8, 2012
28
charlotte n.c
I'm getting mixed messages about how long to run my pump after adding MA. just added 11 oz to a 4600g pool. if that matters. some say 4 hours some say 6 pool store guy said 72 hours! also i have a SWG and he told me to run that the whole 3 days as well. i should mention its a fresh fill and chlorine is at 0.
going by the pool store guys sloppy hand writing as my test kit has yet to arive, here are the results he wrote down.
chlorine 0
ph 8.4
alkalinity 30
hardness 120
phos 0
if you haven't noticed I'm new here. :oops:
 

JesseWV

LifeTime Supporter
Apr 26, 2011
526
North Central WV
Was your pH already too high when you filled? It seems strange to be adding Muriatic Acid already. Have you adjusted your TA yet?

As far as mixing it really all depends on the GPH rating of your pump/filter. If you have a smaller Intex pump I would probably let it go 2-3 hours. If you have a 3/4hp or higher standard pump 1 hour should be fine.

Regardinf your SWG, I would give your pool some initial chlorine with some bleach to get it started. Then just let the SWG keep it topped off. What is your CYA (stabilizer) level?
 

solodare

Active member
May 8, 2012
28
charlotte n.c
PH seemed fine to me with the twoway test kit i had from walmart. But the guy at the pool store said it was high. I only added salt to the pool so far. And just now the MA. Small intex pump
 

JasonLion

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
May 7, 2007
37,880
Silver Spring, MD
Using the test results you posted PH is very high and TA level (alkalinity) is very low. Because of the low TA, it won't take much to bring down the PH. You are also going to need to increase the TA as soon as practical. Of course the pool store results could be wrong. If you have other results that contradict them you should tell us more about them.

MA mixes in extremely quickly. Half an hour with the pump running should do it in just about any pool.
 

JesseWV

LifeTime Supporter
Apr 26, 2011
526
North Central WV
First off, I'm not sure if the pool store tested for stabilizer or salt but to your pool they are very important. I'm going to assume you already added the recommend amount of salt?

Anyhow, I plugged your numbers into the PoolCalculator and there are a few pressing issues.

Adding 11oz of 31.45% MA lowered your pH from 8.4 to 6.7 which is very low. You need to add 11oz of washing soda or 23oz of 20 Mule Team Borax to bring your pH back up to 7.4.

If your SWG hasn't brought your FC up to at least 1ppm by now, you need to get some chlorine in your pool after the pH settles in. I would at least add 9oz of bleach if you're still at 0ppm. Once you get your stabilizer dissolved (see #3) your target FC will be 5ppm.

You need stabilizer (CYA) in your water or you'll be running your SWG cell into an early death. Most of the chlorine generated will be quickly destroyed by UV radiation every day. The recommended level for SWG pools is around 70ppm for which you will need 43oz of Cynauric Acid. The recommend method is to fill an old tube sock or t-shirt and hang it near the return jet. With occasional squeezing it should be dissolved in a day or two. Keep in mind you probably won't be able to get an accurate CYA test reading for about a week.


solodare said:
going by the pool store guys sloppy hand writing as my test kit has yet to arive, here are the results he wrote down.
chlorine 0
ph 8.4
alkalinity 30
hardness 120
phos 0
 

solodare

Active member
May 8, 2012
28
charlotte n.c
OMG! I knew he missed a drop of solution when testing! My ph is way low just like you said, im frealing out ! Can i get soda ash or borax at walmart? I have alkalinity up, should i go a head with thay?
 

solodare

Active member
May 8, 2012
28
charlotte n.c
That little ! OMG! Im going to kill that kid! Trying to do that test all fast and look cool in front of my wife. I knew he missed a drop but thought "hey he is a pro im sure he knows what he is doing!
 

JesseWV

LifeTime Supporter
Apr 26, 2011
526
North Central WV
solodare said:
OMG! I knew he missed a drop of solution when testing! My ph is way low just like you said, im frealing out ! Can i get soda ash or borax at walmart? I have alkalinity up, should i go a head with thay?
Alkalinity Up is usually Baking Soda. You will end up with a TA of 375 if you used enough of it to get your pH back up. Your TA should be 60-80 so this would be a bad idea.

You can get both Borax and Washing Soda in the laundry isle. Note that amounts I calculated were by volume so use a measuring cup. It would also help you immensely to become familiar with the Pool Calculator.
 

solodare

Active member
May 8, 2012
28
charlotte n.c
JesseWV said:
Alkalinity Up is usually Baking Soda. You will end up with a TA of 375 if you used enough of it to get your pH back up. Your TA should be 60-80 so this would be a bad idea.
i ment is it safe to use when adding the washing soda? or should i wait till i get the ph back up? noted pool calculator will be my new wife! i just havent got to it cause i dont have the proper test kit yet.
 

JesseWV

LifeTime Supporter
Apr 26, 2011
526
North Central WV
I would be more worried about getting your pH back up right now. It is safe but it's still good practive to allow mixing time between different chemical additions. I made this mistake when I opened for the first time and it resulted in cloudy water for quite awhile so be careful.

Adding 11oz of Washing Soda will increase your TA by 18, bringing it up to 48. That's assuming the initial pool store number is accurate.
After letting it circulate, If you add 10oz of Baking Soda that will increase your TA by an additional 12 resulting in a TA of 60.

solodare said:
i ment is it safe to use when adding the washing soda? or should i wait till i get the ph back up? noted pool calculator will be my new wife! i just havent got to it cause i dont have the proper test kit yet.
 

solodare

Active member
May 8, 2012
28
charlotte n.c
dude told me to add 5lbs of alkalinity up! im just going to add the washing soda like you said. after that should i just wait for the test kit before doing anything else? it will be here on the 7th. thanks btw, your help is soooo appreciated!
 

JesseWV

LifeTime Supporter
Apr 26, 2011
526
North Central WV
Adding 5lb (80oz) of Sodium Bicarb (Baking Soda/alkalinity up) would only raise your pH by 0.2 but raise TA by 100. :hammer:

solodare said:
dude told me to add 5lbs of alkalinity up! im just going to add the washing soda like you said. after that should i just wait for the test kit before doing anything else? it will be here on the 7th. thanks btw, your help is soooo appreciated!
 

JesseWV

LifeTime Supporter
Apr 26, 2011
526
North Central WV
solodare said:
... after that should i just wait for the test kit before doing anything else? it will be here on the 7th. thanks btw, your help is soooo appreciated!
No problem. You still need to follow this from my previous post:

JesseWV said:
If your SWG hasn't brought your FC up to at least 1ppm by now, you need to get some chlorine in your pool after the pH settles in. I would at least add 9oz of bleach if you're still at 0ppm. Once you get your stabilizer dissolved (see #3) your target FC will be 5ppm.

You need stabilizer (CYA) in your water or you'll be running your SWG cell into an early death. Most of the chlorine generated will be quickly destroyed by UV radiation every day. The recommended level for SWG pools is around 70ppm for which you will need 43oz of Cynauric Acid. The recommend method is to fill an old tube sock or t-shirt and hang it near the return jet. With occasional squeezing it should be dissolved in a day or two. Keep in mind you probably won't be able to get an accurate CYA test reading for about a week.
 

solodare

Active member
May 8, 2012
28
charlotte n.c
JesseWV, thanks so much! i just added the washing powder. i think i can go to sleep now. if the PH is right in the morning I'll add the 9oz of bleach and the CYA.
 

Bama Rambler

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
Jun 22, 2009
23,628
SouthWest Alabama
I really hope you didn't add washing powder. I hope it was washing soda. There's a difference.

We'll know in a bit when you come back with OMG my pool is a huge bubble bath! :shock:
 

barelylegible

Member
Jun 1, 2012
22
Virginia
If this is the same pool I have (Intex Ultra Frame 14' x 48") then your volume estimate may be a little high @ 4600 gal.
It's listed as having 3861 gallons @ 90% capacity (3' 7").
Even a perfect cylinder at those exact dimentions (14' x 3'7") would have ~4156 gallons.

Just wanted to let you know you could probably be using ~15% less additives.
 

solodare

Active member
May 8, 2012
28
charlotte n.c
LOL no bubble trouble. but my pH is up in the add acid mark again. 8.4, just when i think im getting the idea of how this stuff works, it kicks me right in the teeth. its rainning here this am but not like a heavy rain at all. so i guess i just added to much washing soda?

barlelylegible thanks for the input. ive seen that stat before in the intex book but all the pool calculators point to 4600. i guess i should start looking at the 4000 flat mark? it is the same pool as yours. what are you going with (volume wise)?
 

barelylegible

Member
Jun 1, 2012
22
Virginia
I'm going with 3800, but I'm not quite at 90% full. I'm off level by about 1.5 inches.
Will need to be working on my ground some more before next year. Also, I need to put something under the pool legs, so I may be doing it this year :(

4600 is the volume if you had an exact cylinder that is 14'x4' filled 100%.
This pool is NOT an exact cylinder at all and at the widest section ~14'.
Going about 4k would probably be close enough. Closer than 4600 for sure.

Could be part of the reason your PH went up more than expected.

If you don't mind answering a couple questions...:)
You using the "Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater Filtration System"?
I'm about to order one. Is the setup easy? How much salt did you add?
 

solodare

Active member
May 8, 2012
28
charlotte n.c
barleylegiable, i agree, 4600 seems like it must be too much.

the swg set up is realy basic. Im using the pump that came with the pool and the connection to the pump that goes to the swg is a bit skecthy but i havent seen a leak yet. its all pretty easy.let me know if you have any problems hooking it up.

if you want i can post some pics in the underconstuction threads showing what we did. but that will have to be tonight when i get home.
i added about 75 lbs of salt so far and was told it was low but that was from the same kid that told me my pH was way high when it was realy perfect. my test kit comes tomorrow so let me get back to you on how much i end up using.