Master Cleaner on Intellicenter

[mdbrown]

Question for any master Intellicenter gurus: Why does the cleaner not come back on after the spillway runs in an overlapping schedule?

Here's the schedule scenario:
Pool: 12pm - 6pm
Cleaner: 1pm-6pm
Spillway: 2pm-3pm

Pool turns on at noon; Cleaner turns on at 1pm and turns off at 2pm while Spillway runs; Spillway turns off at 3pm, but Cleaner does NOT turn back on, even though the schedule is still running. The Cleaner Feature indicator remains green/On, but the booster never turns back on after Spillway runs.

It's a relatively new pool, so I had the equipment guys come out and take a look (I guess they didn't understand the issue completely over text). After discussing in detail with them and a phone call back to the office, they said that's how it's designed "for safety".

Of course I can fix this issue through schedule changes/additions. What I'm wondering is if this is really by design, or if it's a bug. After the 2.006 firmware debacle and having to revert back to 1.064 (losing comm with my pumps in the process), I'm leery of jumping up to 2.017 when everything is otherwise working OK.

Any wisdom would be appreciated.

 

[Ahultin]

If I'm reading correctly you have three overlapping schedules which don't necessarily play nice in intellicenter. Good thing is intellicenter allows 100 schedules so I would just reprogram them so that ideally none overlap but at least no more than 2 overlap.

 

[mdbrown]

If I'm reading correctly you have three overlapping schedules which don't necessarily play nice in intellicenter. Good thing is intellicenter allows 100 schedules so I would just reprogram them so that ideally none overlap but at least no more than 2 overlap.

while you may be right about overlapping schedules (although I have several others without any problems), that doesn't seem to be the cause here. I can manually start the cleaner, then manually start the spillway, and when I turn off the spillway, the cleaner does not turn back on, even though the user interface indicator says the cleaner is still on. there is just something in the software that will not re-start the master cleaner when it's interrupted by the spillway.

 

[Ahultin]

Intellicenter is not super intelligent, have you tried changing the cleaner circuit from cleaner to generic?

 

[mdbrown]

Intellicenter is not super intelligent, have you tried changing the cleaner circuit from cleaner to generic?

I haven't, and wouldn't be surprised at all if that worked. I will probably give it a shot. I'm just trying to find out if this is a known issue with the master cleaner and if it's considered a bug. It would be a piece of the puzzle in deciding whether to upgrade to 2.017, or stick with 1.064 for now.

 

[Ahultin]

It would be a piece of the puzzle in deciding whether to upgrade to 2.017, or stick with 1.064 for now.

After getting the needed pump firmware update for my 011056 intelliflo, 2.017 has worked flawlessly for me.
That said, if you back up your configuration to USB, worst case, you have to spend 5m to rollback to 1.64 if you have issues with 2.017

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I'm just trying to find out if this is a known issue with the master cleaner and if it's considered a bug.

Doesn't sound like a bug. Sounds like it is intended to do this.

From the IntelliCenter user's guide:

For example, an automatic pool cleaner pump, would assign the circuit function Master Cleaner. With this cleaner logic the cleaner pump would not run without the filter pump being on first, and, the cleaner pump would automatically shut off whenever the spa is switched on. The cleaner will go on after the five minute delay. Also, the automatic cleaner pump will turn off when the spa and/or solar is turned on. Be careful not to duplicate circuit names with these circuits. A Feature Circuit can be assigned to switch a two-speed Filter Pump from high speed to low speed.

Sounds like they specifically designed the Master Cleaner circuit to turn off whenever spa is switched on. Since the circuit is actually being turned off internally, there is no action to turn it back on when spa turns off. The schedule turned it on once at 1pm, so it won't turn it on again. Changing the Master Cleaner circuit type to Generic, will allow the cleaner circuit to stay on, but I would recommend thinking through what that might do while the spillway is on.

Also from the IC user's guide:

Spillway
For pool/spa combinations where the spa is raised above the pool. This setting moves the return valve so that the filter pump pulls the water from the pool and returns it to the spa, creating a water fall effect. Automatic pool cleaners are turned off when this feature is turned on.

Master Cleaner
Works with automatic pool cleaner pumps or cleaner valve actuator. This feature will:
- Force the filter pump on five (5) minutes before the cleaner.
- Turn the cleaner off when the spa is on.
- Turn the cleaner off for five (5) minutes when the solar heating begins.

--Jeff

 

[mdbrown]

After getting the needed pump firmware update for my 011056 intelliflo, 2.017 has worked flawlessly for me.
That said, if you back up your configuration to USB, worst case, you have to spend 5m to rollback to 1.64 if you have issues with 2.017

Unfortunately for me, that might not be the worst case. When we went to 2.006 and started having problems, we had pumps drop completely when reverting to 1.064.

 

[mdbrown]

Doesn't sound like a bug. Sounds like it is intended to do this.

From the IntelliCenter user's guide:

For example, an automatic pool cleaner pump, would assign the circuit function Master Cleaner. With this cleaner logic the cleaner pump would not run without the filter pump being on first, and, the cleaner pump would automatically shut off whenever the spa is switched on. The cleaner will go on after the five minute delay. Also, the automatic cleaner pump will turn off when the spa and/or solar is turned on. Be careful not to duplicate circuit names with these circuits. A Feature Circuit can be assigned to switch a two-speed Filter Pump from high speed to low speed.

Sounds like they specifically designed the Master Cleaner circuit to turn off whenever spa is switched on. Since the circuit is actually being turned off internally, there is no action to turn it back on when spa turns off. The schedule turned it on once at 1pm, so it won't turn it on again. Changing the Master Cleaner circuit type to Generic, will allow the cleaner circuit to stay on, but I would recommend thinking through what that might do while the spillway is on.

Also from the IC user's guide:

Spillway
For pool/spa combinations where the spa is raised above the pool. This setting moves the return valve so that the filter pump pulls the water from the pool and returns it to the spa, creating a water fall effect. Automatic pool cleaners are turned off when this feature is turned on.

Master Cleaner
Works with automatic pool cleaner pumps or cleaner valve actuator. This feature will:
- Force the filter pump on five (5) minutes before the cleaner.
- Turn the cleaner off when the spa is on.
- Turn the cleaner off for five (5) minutes when the solar heating begins.

--Jeff

Thanks, Jeff. Yes, for sure they designed it to turn off when the spa or spillway is turned on. That makes sense, since the system doesn't know where you plumped the cleaner pump intake. However, when my scheduled Spillway program finishes running, the system reverts back to running Pool (same pump as spillway, just a change in the return valve actuator). It's not clear to me why it can't (or couldn't) revert back to running Cleaner as well. Just something I will have to live with, I guess.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

However, when my scheduled Spillway program finishes running, the system reverts back to running Pool (same pump as spillway, just a change in the return valve actuator). It's not clear to me why it can't (or couldn't) revert back to running Cleaner as well.

All has to do with how they programmed IC. In the case of your Pool circuit, the IC is not actually turning it off, it is just running the spillway over the top of it. Meaning it just actuates the valve and diverts the water to a different location. For the Cleaner circuit, this is turning off a physical relay.

Hope that helps explain why the Pool circuit appears to revert back to 'on' when the spillway is done.

--Jeff