Maintaining FC residual when doing weekly pool service

[patespools]

Hi, I need your help. This is my first year in pool service. I’m trying to solve the problem of maintaining a minimum 3ppm free chlorine residual while only servicing the pool once every 7 days. 3ppm FC is my residual target because I’m using PoolRx. Below I’ll list the factors and limitations involved in finding a solution to this problem:

- 10,000 gal outdoor pool in Las Vegas, NV (lots of sunlight)
- Heavy debris
- CYA must be >50ppm and <80ppm from April-September (when UV is highest)
- No SWG
- No liquid chlorine feeder
- Pool owner cannot add chlorine
- No pool cover
- No borates
- No ozone/UV
- Partial drain allowed once every 2 years
- Cal hypo tab use limited to 1 tab per week for 1 month out of the year (to offer competitive pricing to customers)
- FC/CYA maximum of 20%

Is it a waste to raise FC/CYA above 10%? What would you do?

Also, thank you for all of your contributions to the TFP forum.

 

[NicoleIvy2004]

Hi! The first thing is that this site is not going to suggest using PoolRx or anything with copper. I would stop using that first of all. Also, use chlorine tabs sparingly because the tabs always have CYA/stabilizer in it, which can lead to high CYA levels. Do not use those tabs weekly. I only use them in times where I will be gone longer than a week.

The CYA stabilizer is too high. If you have too much CYA, the chlorine won't work as well just like if there's too little.

Use these links as a starting point to get the proper levels you need.

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.

www.troublefreepool.com

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.

www.troublefreepool.com

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

The homeowner does zero pool care? If there tends to be lots of debris, they need to get out there or somehow hire you to come more often. They also will need to understand that the only way to lower their CYA levels is to do a small partial drain of the pool.

 

[NicoleIvy2004]

I want to also add, if you're using test strips to see the chemical levels in your pool, get ready to throw them away and buy a proper testing kit. It's super easy to use. Believe me, I was overwhelmed when I was a new pool owner, but the directions that come in the kit are fool-proof. So easy, and very precise so you really know what's going on with the pool. You should never truly need all the fancy chemicals and products sold in stores. Just the basics!

You may need two kits since you're a professional. One kit for liquid chlorine pools, and one for salt pools. They're a little pricey up front, but I'm telling you it'll make a world of difference in your business. Plus, you get to write them off as a business expense!

Welcome to the site, by the way!

 

[JamesW]

Install a SWG.

That is the only practical solution.

 

[NicoleIvy2004]

@JamesW I'm a little surprised at your answer. I get it that SWG is the best, but this is OP's client's pool. And everything he shared is fixable that I see so far. I currently have a liquid chlorine pool and while it'll be an improvement to go SWG soon, it is still quite easy to maintain.

 

[JamesW]

I get it that SWG is the best, but this is OP's client's pool.

Ok, so why can't they sell the client a SWG?

If the client can afford a pool and pool service, they can afford a SWG.

Liquid chlorine is a lot of work to transport to a customer's property to keep the tank filled.

The relationship has to work for both parties, which means that the service person has to be able to find a solution that works for them as well.

If the customer refuses the SWG, the service should probably drop them as a customer.

 

[JamesW]

I currently have a liquid chlorine pool and while it'll be an improvement to go SWG soon, it is still quite easy to maintain.

You get a lot more rain and dilution than someone in Las Vegas.

Liquid chlorine will increase the salinity too high with the evaporation and refill cycle.

Tabs will increase the CYA too much unless you are diluting 1,000 gallons per week.

The only practical solution is SWG.

 

[NicoleIvy2004]

You have a great point on the SWG as it's not crazy expensive, but the homeowner might think otherwise. And to drop clients that have liquid chlorine pools could really limit his business. Lots of pool professionals carry liquid chlorine with them. It's not a big ask of a professional.

From my understanding of cya, you put in the target amount and that's it. It doesn't raise by itself. Are you saying that because he might have more evaporation that this causes a CYA problem? I'm just not quite following what you mean and unsure how liquid chlorine would make the pool salinity increase. I've learned a lot on this site and curious to understand these nuances too. Thanks!

 

[Newdude]

And to drop clients that have liquid chlorine pools could really limit his business

Nothing drops clients like green pools.

Lots of pool professionals carry liquid chlorine with them.

The problem is that chlorine burns off as a %, which is faster at higher levels. I saw it myself this season when losing 7 or 8 ppm a day in the 20s, instead of 3 or 4, while having no overnight loss. (All FC lost to UV). You can't just spike the FC 3 or 4 ppm a day (times 7) and have any leftover at the end of the week.

So they deploy the slower dispersing tabs which then jack the CYA or CH.

A stenner type chlorine dosing system is a viable alternative and cheaper upfront than the SWG. It solves the daily adding problem allowing a tank top off and readjusting weekly to the recent UV demand.

Even better of course is the SWG which doesn't need jugs lugged and filled in the reserve tank.

 

[patespools]

Install a SWG.

That is the only practical solution.

I agree. I would love to have all my pools have a SWG, however in my experience most customers will not be willing to pay for one. So I’m not sure how else to maintain the FC level without using a ton of trichlor tabs

 

[patespools]

@chem geek need your help. what would you do?

 

[Newdude]

I would love to have all my pools have a SWG, however in my experience most customers will not be willing to pay for one

I'd lay out the options and the +/-s and let the customers decide how well they want any pool service to work for them. They can drop you and it won't go well when the next service is heavy on the puck use.

Maybe they'll come back more willing to listen.

 

[patespools]

@chem geek need your help. what would you do?

I'd lay out the options and the +/-s and let the customers decide how well they want any pool service to work for them. They can drop you and it won't go well when the next service is heavy on the puck use.

Maybe they'll come back more willing to listen.

That’s good advice. Just can’t afford to lose customers

 

[Newdude]

Make sure to stress that whether they use you, someone else, or DIY, the sun will burn off 3 or 4 ppm a day in the peak season. Maybe even 5 because of your insane UV demand.

When you lay out the drawbacks of the other methods it's harder to refuse sound advise. If they do, you don't want a customer that demands you fight an unwinnable fight anyway. Sure it'll work for a while the other way, until it doesn't. Then it's all your fault, not their insisting on doing it the way which is problematic.

So many come to us after having several pool services. It's the method, not the guy who shows up once a week.

 

[patespools]

Make sure to stress that whether they use you, someone else, or DIY, the sun will burn off 3 or 4 ppm a day in the peak season. Maybe even 5 because of your insane UV demand.

When you lay out the drawbacks of the other methods it's harder to refuse sound advise. If they do, you don't want a customer that demands you fight an unwinnable fight anyway. Sure it'll work for a while the other way, until it doesn't. Then it's all your fault, not their insisting on doing it the way which is problematic.

So many come to us after having several pool services. It's the method, not the guy who shows up once a week.

I agree. The response I get from customers is

Make sure to stress that whether they use you, someone else, or DIY, the sun will burn off 3 or 4 ppm a day in the peak season. Maybe even 5 because of your insane UV demand.

When you lay out the drawbacks of the other methods it's harder to refuse sound advise. If they do, you don't want a customer that demands you fight an unwinnable fight anyway. Sure it'll work for a while the other way, until it doesn't. Then it's all your fault, not their insisting on doing it the way which is problematic.

So many come to us after having several pool services. It's the method, not the guy who shows up once a week.

True. You’re right. Thanks

 

[Newdude]

Clearing swamps isn't cheap. Not having a couple of them over several years pays for the SWG itself. Or they make the conscious decision to go with pucks and the occasional swamp isn't your fault because you (politely and professionally) laid it out beforehand. Then smile and fix it when it happens. Point out that you both knew the risks and accepted they'd arise at times.

Also stress Murphys. And that each and every one of the swamps will wait until.*exactly 3 days* before that sweet 16 or graduation party.

 

[NicoleIvy2004]

This is so interesting.

So how many people in desert climates have liquid chlorine pools? If it's known that liquid chlorine doesn't cut it, then why is it even an option? Is this info in Pool School? If not, I would highly suggest at least adding a note about it because this is the first I'm hearing of it.

 

[Newdude]

If it's known that liquid chlorine doesn't cut it, then why is it even an option?

*weekly LC additions don't cut it.
*problematic testing doesn't cut it.
*exclusive puck use doesn't cut it.

All 3 keep the line of newbs around the corner here.

Each.

 

[JamesW]

Lots of pool professionals carry liquid chlorine with them. It's not a big ask of a professional.

It really is.

It is a lot of time and effort.

Are you going to pay $150.00 per week for someone to deliver liquid chlorine?

It doesn't raise by itself.

It does with tabs.

I would love to have all my pools have a SWG, however in my experience most customers will not be willing to pay for one.

They are willing if you know how to make the case.

You need to learn how to sell as a professional.

 

[PoolStored]

unsure how liquid chlorine would make the pool salinity increase.

By adding it to the pool. Each gallon will raise salt by 14, in a 15,000gallon pool.