Low Speed Not Starting Following Normal Three Minute High Speed Start

[stephenson]

Hi All,

I have my ProLogic Hayward two speed pump set to freeze protect start at 34°F. In the two speed Hayward system this initiates with high speed for three minutes, then shifts to low speed operation. This has been working fine, but today, following a couple of nights of temps below the 34° set point, the high speed was cycling on and off, but never activating the low speed side.

So, once temps were above 40°F I tried starting in low speed (toggle through high to low), but the high speed did not start nor did the system display show the expected start and countdown for three minutes. I first cycled the ProLogic device power off and on, then selected the low speed cycle (high speed for three minutes then automatic shift to low speed) - high speed started and the display showed the low speed countdown, but at the end of the countdown, the low speed pump did not start. I then selected low speed, again, without cycling the controller power - the high speed did not start, nor did the low speed countdown begin. I did this twice more to ensure it was consistently behaving this way - nothing changed.

So, I cycled controller power, again, then selected low speed and the countdown began, but at the end of countdown, with my finger on the bottom of Aux Relay #1 on the actuation pin, I neither heard Aux#1 click, nor felt the pin move. I think this means the relay did not operate.

I plan to substitute the Lights relay to see if this brings low speed back on-line ... if it does, I'll leave it configured that way and replace the Lights relay. Does this sound like the appropriate course of action?

Thanks!

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

Sounds like a good plan to me..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[stephenson]

It's not supposed to be easy, right - well, swapped Aux 1 and Lights relays. Lights works fine on the original low speed relay (Aux 1) and pin pulls up into the relay when energized. Low speed does not work on the original Lights relay. So ... conclusion the relay is not the issue?

I metered the high speed relay input power when turned on from control board at 40 V, and the lights input power at 40 V. I thought I might detect some voltage when metering the Aux 1 relay - zero change on meter when it should have shifted to low. If a capacitor is bad, would the input power show nothing? Does the system protect itself by not powering the relay - and, it is just faster than the meter?

I am not getting a hum or anything from the motor.

I last repaired the high speed failing to run with a new dual run relay - while cheap, it worked fine, and still does only on high - JARD Replacement for Packard PRCD2510 Round Dual Run Capacitor 25 + 10 uf MFD 370 Volt: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Is it odd this occurred on the coldest night this year, so far ...

Thoughts on next steps?

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

The first thing to know is that if you apply power to both the low-speed and high-speed pump wires at the same time, your pump will be toast.

To prevent this Hayward uses two relays, the pump/filter relay and an Aux relay. The system knows not turn on both relays at the same time.

High speed runs off the filter relay when it is energized. Contacts only closed when the systems wants to run at High-speed

Low speed runs off of the aux relay when it is energized. Contacts only closed when the systems wants to run at Low-speed.

The key is that the system must know that the Filter relay and the Aux relay are supposed to be used for powering a 2-speed pump. Are you sure that is still programmed?? I suspect it is not, or maybe freeze control overrides it..

When the system should be running at High-speed, you should be able to measure 240 volts between the two load pins of Filter relay. (Do not measure each pin to ground...)

When the system should be running at Low-Speed, you should be able to measure 240 volts between the two load pins of the Aux relay. (Do not measure each pin to ground...)

If you have 240 volts between the two load pins of the Aux relay and the pump is not running, then the problem has to be the pump or wiring going to the pump.

If you do not have 240 volts between the two load pins of the Aux relay, then the problem has to be the relay or the coil voltage going to the relay.

Please let me know what you find.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[stephenson]

Jimrahbe - copy all. The 40V notes were just me checking up stream from the motor to see if the system was telling the relay to route power - if did not look like they was occurring based on the lack of V at the Aux 1 relay. Never checked to see if 240 because it was clearly not being told to do that. I did check all the power to ensure it was there waiting for the relay to turn on.

I posed the same question re whether freeze protect would allow - but, it worked previously - I think I read about it as an option. Big deal for us, as our bedroom is about 10 feet from the filter pump!

Popped cover off motor - looks same as it did last time . I rearranged wiring to clean it up a bit. Popped cover off dual run capacity (on top). Nothing unusual, no swelling, burned contacts, smell, etc.

Ran through the various parts of the Config menu, cycled and left in same as before when it was running - but, did not change any settings:

Filter Pump - 2 Speed
Freeze Protect - Enabled
Freeze Protect Speed - Low
Freeze Temp - 33F
External Input - Disabled
Aux 1 Function - Filter Low Speed

And, now it works ... grrrr .... "Laying on Hands" by moving wiring, or had the PCB dumped something? The later doesn't seem logical as I rebooted it several times. Possible that cycling through the various options - ASSUMING THE ONES ABOVE ARE CORRECT - did something?

 

[stephenson]

So, quick status - not cold enough last night for system to execute freeze protection, but when I toggle using Filter button and select "Low Speed" the High Speed pump starts, and the 3 minute countdown starts. After three minutes the Low Speed started - so, normal.

Regardless of the freeze protection system, the normal manual select to Low Speed did not work yesterday after many power reboots - and, frankly, I have no idea WHY it is working normally now, but didn't then.

Will have some colder weather this weekend so will status how it now works with freeze protection function.

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

You can just put the air temp sensor in a glass of ice water, that should kick your freeze protect on..

Jim R.

 

[stephenson]

Good idea! Martini on the rocks with temp sensor!