Losing water, lots of bubbles in pump and coming out of return jets

[bsenright]

Hi all, I have been battling this for 2 years and I have tried two pool companies both of which think the issue is not the plumbing but want to sell me a new liner. The liner is only 3.5 years old and I have tested it myself. If the issue was just losing water, I can see where it could be the liner.

The problem is, I am losing 1/2" to 3/4" of water every day which is not due to evaporation. I have done dozens of bucket tests to try to isolate the issue. I get a lot of bubbles in my pump and coming from the return jets. Also, when I shut off the skimmer valve and leave main drain on, the bubbles get much worse. When I turn off main drain and leave skimmer on, the bubbles are worse than when both are open but not as bad as when only skimmer line is turned off.

I feel the two issues are related. During bucket tests with pump off for 24 hours, it definitely loses water. With pump on for 6-8 hours during the 24 hours, it loses water but its hard to say if they are the same amount of leakage. Its pretty close at least.

I have tried to plug the skimmer and test but I was using a screw in cap instead of a rubber plug. Still had a leak.

I ran die tests all along the top part of the liner, the skimmer area and the light area. no signs of leaks.

Also, when the pump is turned off, the water in the pump goes down very quickly. And after about 15 mins, if I turn the pump back on, it takes about 2 minutes to prime. So there has to be a leak in the plumbing.

I feel like I need a plumber to run a camera through the suction side of the plumbing to find the leak. But pool guys say its a waste of money because the chances are low of a plumbing leak. Thoughts?

 

[sktn77a]

It's possible that both suction lines have leaks, but more likely a suction leak between where those two lines come out of the ground and the pump (pump connection, valve connection). That would explain the bubbles. Pour water over any connection there to see if the bubbles decrease - that should locate a leak at those connections.

You may also have a liner leak. 1/2 - 3/4 inch per day is a significant leak.

 

[bsenright]

Thanks Keith. I did a water test over the entire above ground system last spring and nothing showed a decrease in bubbles. I am going to do further tests that I also did last spring which showed the loss of water stopped when the water was lowered to be just above the skimmer opening. This told me that if there was a liner leak, that would be the level it would be at. But I went over the enter pool at that level with die multiple times and still have not found a leak.

Another hint is there is a slab of concreted decking at the corner of the pool near the where the pump is that has sunk about 3 inches. both suction pipes would be right under that about 2' lower. It was like that when we bought the house 2 years ago. I have been suspecting that the plumbing underneath that slab has either cracked or a fitting came loose causing the leak. but there are no signs of wet ground in the area.

 

[duraleigh]

I do not think the two issues are related. bubbles in the pump basket are not coming from the pool, they are coming from a suction side air leak/ and would contribute nothing to a water loss.

Confirm that by getting a good dose (SLAM value) of chlorine in your pool and then shut it off and leave it off.

The pool will drain down to the leak and stop. If you get withing 6" inches of the pool floor do not let it drain further.

But I went over the enter pool at that level with die multiple times and still have not found a leak.

But the leak stopped, neverthe less so that must be the location of the leak. Die test is troublesome and if the leak had already stopped the die test wouldn't do any good.

 

[bsenright]

I meant, after filling the pool up a couple inches, went around it multiple times very slowly looking for any signs of a leak. I have not done a lot of testing since spring but will go back over my steps I went through last winter and spring to try to isolate again.

 

[sktn77a]

Interestingly, I've never had much luck with the dye test........ maybe I'm doing it wrong(?)

 

[duraleigh]

Interestingly, I've never had much luck with the dye test........ maybe I'm doing it wrong(?)

The biggest issue I see with it is if the dye is even 1/2" away from the leak, it often drifts aimlessly, never pointing out the leak so you assume you don't have one

 

[jimmythegreek]

look for a leak detection company. they will plug the lines and blow air into them and listen with a headphones type of machine like a metal detector. couple hundred bucks and they will find the leak. the dye tests are hard if you dont have experience. If you dont want to spend money you can rig the pump up with a suction line right into the pool then right into the pump and bypass the suction lines from drain and skimmer. if leak stops you have a starting point. you may have air in above ground line leaks, but the fact ur isolating the drain and skimmer and it changes isnt good. Ive seen the valves leak and lots of odd things. depends how in depth you wanna get. not gonna get far with water over pipes and that sort of thing IMO takes some real detective work

 

[bsenright]

Duraleigh was right on. the issues are not related. I did a hose test on all the plumbing today and found the air leak. Patched it up and now the pump basket is clear as can be and no bubbled in the pool any more. It was in a spot i had not tried before and was focused on lid area and the plumbing coming directly into the pump.

Now to focus on the pool leak. I am doing bucket tests with and without the pump running this weekend. I suspect it will leak in both instances. If so, I will let the water go low until it stops leaking

 

[bsenright]

I am still in the process of finding the leak. Water level just hit to where it is at the bottom of the skimmer opening (top of the skimmer basket) so we will see if the leak slows down or stops in that area, which is what i believe I saw last year.