Jandy JXI won't ignite

[gnr5]

Ok ggoing to start cleaning the grounds now, if I were to do jumper, do I need to do it from the Fenwel itself or do I do it from the right panel port?

 

[gnr5]

After the ignition cycles and try's 2 more times with light flashing 3 times means the Fenwal is not detecting current leakage to ground. The amount of leakage is micro amps and difficult to measure. Here's what seems to be the culprit in order frequency that I've seen posted here and other sites:

• Corrosion - you can verify this by running a separate new wire from the flame detection probe to a ground that's known to be good near the burner. Pentair actually makes a kit for this purpose that can be used on any heater. They all use almost identical flame detection control. The wire will have to connect in a place that gets extremely hot so it needs to have that silicone high temp insulation. This is what's supplied in the Pentair kit.
• Power supply wire insulation integrity. If there is any leakage from the hot wires to ground coming in to your unit this will interfere with the flame detection signal and cause the Fenwal to flash 3 times. This is almost impossible to test since only tiny amount of leakage makes the flame detection system inoperable. You may think this isn't likely but in my case a lightning strike caused tiny, pin tip-sized dots along the supply wire insulation. Before you give up run a jumper wire outside the conduit, disconnect the original wire and connect the jumper. If this works remove the original power supply wires and replace with new conductors. To my amazement this worked and solved the problem for me. I spent weeks trouble-shooting and devising bizarre ways to test every component in the system and every component eventually proved good. Before I gave up and just bought a new unit I figured the power supply was the only thing I didn't prove had no leakage to ground. It did have the correct voltage. We sold the house but the original heater that I replaced the power wire on is still working.
• Low gas pressure is causing a weak flame that isn't strong enough to cause ionized gas particles to produce micro current to ground. This is almost always caused by a valve that's been accidentally closed and/or out of propane.
• The fenwal and gas valves are incredibly reliable so they rarely fail, especially when you are getting 3 red light flashes. This means all the safety devices are working to get you though the heavily protected, complex ignition sequence that gets you to the step where the gas valve opens. The Fenwal is also working to get this far in the sequence. They are also very expensive. The control board can also fail and it's expensive too. If it fails there's normally some burnt spots you can see. This happened on mine after the lightning strike but the unit still wouldn't work until I replaced the power wires.

Good luck and I hope this is helpful.

Chris

Also another easy thing to do is to remove and replace all the wire connections on the Fenwal. It only takes a tiny amount of corrosion to interfere especially on the ground connector. The nice thing about this flame detection technique is it's incredibly safe. It's also very susceptible to corrosion related failures and a few other quirky things that cause false ignition faults.

Tried cleaning the grounds connection on the pictures from early and nothing, I might need to do a better job cleaning it, will try again this afternoon. Also, I don't think I hear the whoosh sound anymore, I do hear the click and then the three flashing lights. I might be going crazy too lol.
I want to try the jumper cable, can I get confirmation where should I do it from?

 

[setsailsoon]

There are several ways to do it. I've attached the Pentair instructions.

 

[gnr5]

There are several ways to do it. I've attached the Pentair instructions.

Based on these intructiosn I don't mess with the Fenwel at all, correct?

 

[gnr5]

There are several ways to do it. I've attached the Pentair instructions.

Thanks for sharing, so I tried a few things

1. Removed the ground from the Fenwel unit, turned the heater on and as expected the fan didn't start
2. Added a jumper wire from the Fenwel attached to one of the screws on the heater, the fan started but didn't ignite.
3. Plugged back the original ground to the Fenwel, removed all the ground wires from the control board (on the right of the fenwel) and added the jumper wire there. Same thing, fan started, didn't ignite
4. Plugged all the three grounds back to the control board, then added the jumper ground. Same thing, fan started, didn't ignite
5. To the left of the control board there is another ground connection, did the same as 3 and 4 above. Same thing, fan started, didn't ignite.

Waiting for the manometer to get here tomorrow. Anything else I should try?

 

[setsailsoon]

Do you hear the gas valve open? It has a distinctive metal clink sound.

 

[gnr5]

Do you hear the gas valve open? It has a distinctive metal clink sound.

Here is the full sequence, I do hear the click (1:07 and 2:00 minute mark) and smell gas, however now I don't feel the whoosh I felt two days ago,

 

[setsailsoon]

It's pretty clear you either don't have enough gas to support a flame or there is something interfering with the micro-amp flame sense signal. I believe your unit uses the igniter as the flame sensor so the only things that could interfere with this are:

• Bad S1 wire or connection at either end
• Bad ground at burner. You should be able to run a temporary wire from the burner base to the ground wire that connects to the ground on the Fenwal.
• Leakage in to ground in the power supply line.

At one point with my fiasco I wanted to see for certain that the unit was able to get enough gas to support flame even though the manometer reading was good I began to doubt everything. So I went through the ignition sequence like you are doing and used 24v to manually open the gas relay right after you hear the click. This also verified the flame sense circuit. It worked. The flame was sustained until it shut off with 2 flashes from the Fenwal light indicating "no call for heat". This positively proved the flame sense circuit was functioning and there was enough gas supply to support a flame. That's when I started looking for other causes and ran a parallel power input line. If you try this be very, very careful. A lot of things can go wrong when you manually open the gas valve. This should not be done unless you are only doing it to test for a few seconds.

 

[gnr5]

It's pretty clear you either don't have enough gas to support a flame or there is something interfering with the micro-amp flame sense signal. I believe your unit uses the igniter as the flame sensor so the only things that could interfere with this are:

• Bad S1 wire or connection at either end
• Bad ground at burner. You should be able to run a temporary wire from the burner base to the ground wire that connects to the ground on the Fenwal.
• Leakage in to ground in the power supply line.

At one point with my fiasco I wanted to see for certain that the unit was able to get enough gas to support flame even though the manometer reading was good I began to doubt everything. So I went through the ignition sequence like you are doing and used 24v to manually open the gas relay right after you hear the click. This also verified the flame sense circuit. It worked. The flame was sustained until it shut off with 2 flashes from the Fenwal light indicating "no call for heat". This positively proved the flame sense circuit was functioning and there was enough gas supply to support a flame. That's when I started looking for other causes and ran a parallel power input line. If you try this be very, very careful. A lot of things can go wrong when you manually open the gas valve. This should not be done unless you are only doing it to test for a few seconds.

This is useful, thanks, although I cant find more info or videos on how to manually open the gas relay, and yes sounds dangerous. Might need to call an expert at this point.

Waiting for the manometer to test the pressure.

Also, i did try a jumper ground from the fenwel but I hooked it up to a random bolt on the unit. Does it have to be at the burner??

 

[setsailsoon]

This is useful, thanks, although I cant find more info or videos on how to manually open the gas relay, and yes sounds dangerous. Might need to call an expert at this point.

Waiting for the manometer to test the pressure.

Also, i did try a jumper ground from the fenwel but I hooked it up to a random bolt on the unit. Does it have to be at the burner??

Good call on the expert. The burner is the best way since the ionized gases cause the current to flow through the burner to the ground system. Each additional connection has potential to cause failure. In my case, I actually proved the flame detection was actually working it's just that my leakage in the power line caused interference. I wish I had more things to offer for you.

Chris