Thanks Rob!! I would also like to see some comments on those containment systems and venturi skimmers as well as the IFCS.
Thanks for your great participation in this thread. Your in-depth explanation and photos were really helpful.
r...
In-Floor Cleaning Systems, Venturi Skimmers and LeafVac Containment
- Thread starter MyAZPool
- Start date
Thanks for your great participation in this thread. Your in-depth explanation and photos were really helpful.
r...
mguzzy
Gold Supporter
I will be the first to admit I don't have the sample size that some of these TFP mods have.. but my experience with IFC's lean toward they are more trouble than they are worth. My neighbor's IFC never really worked as advertised.. Was always getting clogged or jammed and when they replastered after dealing with a leak (not in the IFC, but they never checked) they had them plastered over and the rest of the system capped off. Other people I know got tired of sweeping the blind spots and put int a sweep of some sort (aka robot). All my evidence is anecdotal.. so take it for what its worth.. free.
- Feb 6, 2015
- 6,166
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
I have an A&A infloor system and the A&A Leafvac. These were installed 20 years ago. My system works quite well. However, if I was building a new pool, I would NOT install an infloor system. My reasons:
I do not personally have a venturi skimmer (they didn't have them 20 years ago when the pool was built). However, I do have a friend that has one. He has a VS pump that runs at a low RPM. The venturi skimmer provides increase skimming at low pump RPM. We have played with his venturi skimmer settings and it definitely provides increased skimming when the venturi line is opened (this line provide return water flow thru a venturi to increase skimmer flow). If I was building a new pool, I would definitely have one or more installed.
On the return side, I would have - at least - 4 returns installed at strategic locations around the pool to optimize circulation and help guide debris toward the skimmer(s). While it would increase the plumbing cost, I would consider having each return plumbing separately from the pad back to the pool - thereby allowing fine tuning.
I would also install a SWCG (rated for at least 2 times the pool volume or larger). If $$$ were an issue right now, I would at least have the pad designed to accommodate a future SWCG install. And while I have Hayward equipment presently (which has served me well), I think I would install Pentair on a new install - mostly due to what I have read here on the forums. And I'd install automation - a Pentair Intellicenter likely.
No UV or ozone - they are basically worthless in an outdoor residential pool. And they add unnecessary cost.
Best to plan out the equipment pad prior to plumbing going in. Let you requirements be known. It's your money and your rules.
- Cost to install
- Increased electric usage to operate (pump has to run at high RPM during cleaning)
- Possible future IFCS leaks
- A good quality robot will do a better job cleaning the pool floor and walls
- Probably others, but the above comes to mind right now
I do not personally have a venturi skimmer (they didn't have them 20 years ago when the pool was built). However, I do have a friend that has one. He has a VS pump that runs at a low RPM. The venturi skimmer provides increase skimming at low pump RPM. We have played with his venturi skimmer settings and it definitely provides increased skimming when the venturi line is opened (this line provide return water flow thru a venturi to increase skimmer flow). If I was building a new pool, I would definitely have one or more installed.
On the return side, I would have - at least - 4 returns installed at strategic locations around the pool to optimize circulation and help guide debris toward the skimmer(s). While it would increase the plumbing cost, I would consider having each return plumbing separately from the pad back to the pool - thereby allowing fine tuning.
I would also install a SWCG (rated for at least 2 times the pool volume or larger). If $$$ were an issue right now, I would at least have the pad designed to accommodate a future SWCG install. And while I have Hayward equipment presently (which has served me well), I think I would install Pentair on a new install - mostly due to what I have read here on the forums. And I'd install automation - a Pentair Intellicenter likely.
No UV or ozone - they are basically worthless in an outdoor residential pool. And they add unnecessary cost.
Best to plan out the equipment pad prior to plumbing going in. Let you requirements be known. It's your money and your rules.
I have the whole system.....works great !! turn it on a few hours in the morning and the pools has been clean since we have owned it with zero issues. Runs at 8 am at 65% and after that switches to skim and the pool sparkles. I guess label me lazy.........All I have had to do is set a timer to clean the pool. On the weekends if i wake up early ( 7am) before the pump turns on I can see the dirty pool and debris on the bottom...By the time I am done with breakfast and my morning routine and go back outside around 10 the floor is clean.we have a pole and net that we have never used besides scooping out a random beetle or grasshopper. We also brush once a week on Sundays .
I bought a house with a pool with an in floor system, and so far I find it to be garbage. Took me a while to get all the popped out heads replaced and functioning, and now it doesn't seem to do much even when its on. Doesn't kick up anything substantial, there is still a layer of dirt on the bottom I have to vacuum, and it doesnt push everything into one area to make it easy to vacuum. I'm not entirely sure what the point of it is. It's my only return as well.
Only 2 yrs in but I am very happy with my IFCS. I Only have the heads with I skimmer.
Pros..
-- I Run it 2.5 hrs every night on 3425rpm and it keeps the entire pool clean. My vacuum and hose have never been used.
-- I never have any type of cleaner in the way of swimming so I can dive in any time and not worry about getting the cleaner out or swimming around it.
--Keeps the deck area cleaner looking without a robot sitting off to the side or other type of cleaner.
-- never have any type of debris line on tile.
-- entire pool always constant temp ( no cold or hot spots)
-- Great for mixing in the chemicals
Cons.....
-- I am not convinced that there is a significant increased chance of leaks. Why would there be a better chance of a in floor head leaking as apposed to a return? Granted there are more heads so some risk is assumed but the install is a process and they are all installed and waterproofed at the same time by the same crew. I would argue that if you that if there is a issue with the install then you are just as likely to get a leak at a return as a in floor head. They have been putting holes in pools for a very long time now so I would hope they have it figured out... There are some horror stories out there of leaks with IFCS but from all my research they are few and far between.
-- I leave my pump running at 1500rpm all day and have the valves set to full suction on the skimmer. For the most part this works fine However on heavy debris days it does not keep up. I believe a second skimmer would have been the answer to this issue.
-- I knew the costs (install and electricity )before I pulled the trigger on the IFCS so I am still happy with the extra costs for the luxury of not dealing with a cleaner..
Pros..
-- I Run it 2.5 hrs every night on 3425rpm and it keeps the entire pool clean. My vacuum and hose have never been used.
-- I never have any type of cleaner in the way of swimming so I can dive in any time and not worry about getting the cleaner out or swimming around it.
--Keeps the deck area cleaner looking without a robot sitting off to the side or other type of cleaner.
-- never have any type of debris line on tile.
-- entire pool always constant temp ( no cold or hot spots)
-- Great for mixing in the chemicals
Cons.....
-- I am not convinced that there is a significant increased chance of leaks. Why would there be a better chance of a in floor head leaking as apposed to a return? Granted there are more heads so some risk is assumed but the install is a process and they are all installed and waterproofed at the same time by the same crew. I would argue that if you that if there is a issue with the install then you are just as likely to get a leak at a return as a in floor head. They have been putting holes in pools for a very long time now so I would hope they have it figured out... There are some horror stories out there of leaks with IFCS but from all my research they are few and far between.
-- I leave my pump running at 1500rpm all day and have the valves set to full suction on the skimmer. For the most part this works fine However on heavy debris days it does not keep up. I believe a second skimmer would have been the answer to this issue.
-- I knew the costs (install and electricity )before I pulled the trigger on the IFCS so I am still happy with the extra costs for the luxury of not dealing with a cleaner..
- Mar 5, 2017
- 603
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-9)
I now have a pool with grass and trees and plants (and bougainvillea...argh!) all over. The robot is perfectly ideal for my present set-up, but ultimately I miss my old IFCS. That house has ZERO plants-trees-grass around, only dust and errant neighborly leaves during high winds. The IFCS only needed an occasional (bi-annual) vacuum and weekly step sweep.
It cost me about $1200 for new heads and a new valve (30 yr old original began to leak) and when it was tuned in, nothing could touch it. No cords to swim around or remove, just neat. Never had areas of poor cleaning coverage, but it was a free form pool. When we heated the pool, it spooled up in temp quickly, which always amazed me—excellent water & chemical distribution. For that pool, it just worked really well, but I did my part in maintaining it well. Yes, maybe higher electric-but really it was only 2 hours at high speed for cleaning, then rest at low rpm. I just knew if it was windy, I’d run the pump all night and have a spotless pool party the next day. I never got that with another suction or pressure cleaner at least.
It cost me about $1200 for new heads and a new valve (30 yr old original began to leak) and when it was tuned in, nothing could touch it. No cords to swim around or remove, just neat. Never had areas of poor cleaning coverage, but it was a free form pool. When we heated the pool, it spooled up in temp quickly, which always amazed me—excellent water & chemical distribution. For that pool, it just worked really well, but I did my part in maintaining it well. Yes, maybe higher electric-but really it was only 2 hours at high speed for cleaning, then rest at low rpm. I just knew if it was windy, I’d run the pump all night and have a spotless pool party the next day. I never got that with another suction or pressure cleaner at least.
Rob, I haven't been on vacation...I've just been really busy and we are still getting ready to go on vacation (a looong one).
Most know my feelings on IFCS, mine works great and I wouldn't trade it for a robot or anything else. I run it for cheap, too. Like Proavia, if I bought a new pool (I never would), incremental COST would be the biggest detriment to adding a IFCS...they have gotten much more expensive since my $1200 adder on my first pool (I think closer to $2500 on my current). My understanding is they are much more expensive now.
But, there are horror stories out there. My personal feeling is that the additional plumbing leaks is one that is overplayed. @Arizonarob's story is bad, but apparently that pool had at least four leaks (one on the IFCS, one on the main drain, one on the skimmer, and one on the light)...three of those could happen on just about any pool so I think that build was a bad one. Most pool leaks are usually horror stories and I've seen lots of them that aren't IFCS related.
IMO, this capability (using wall returns and skimmer suction) is an absolute must for efficient operation of a pool with IFCS for low speed skimming/SWG chlorinating...but this also requires a VSP and automation to fully take advantage. Since IFCSs require a certain amount of turnover to filter debris, I wouldn't put one on a larger pool (>20K-25K?? gallons), although I see that some of the posters on this thread have IFCSs on larger pools, and are happy with them.
As far as the new gadgets, I don't have them but here are my opinions.
Leaf Debrtis Canister: for an IFCS pool with a suitable "debris capable" main drain, this is the only way to capture debris before the pump basket. I don't get a lot of debris in my pool, but if I ever put a "debris capable" drain on my IFCS pool, I might put one of these in, too. The drawback is that there is another gasket to keep lubricated and sealed so that the pump doesn't draw air. It's relatively cheap. I don't see much usefulness for non-IFCS pools putting these in.
Venturi Skimmers: I think these are kinda gimmicky because they are method for allowing skimming during IFCS cleaning...a time when the most efficient floor cleaning is done with full bottom drain suction (none left over for the skimmers). However, to drive a venturi skimmer, a "portion" of the water must be diverted from the popups to the skimmer which requires even higher pump RPM to maintain pressure for popup operation. That's not necessarily bad, but one needs to understand and manage its impact.
The use of Venturi skimmers during low speed operation might make skimming more effective, but IMO it will probably be less efficient than traditional wall returns. It bypasses the return via the popups (which is good because those those introduce inefficiencies) but introduces back pressure on the low speed operation (via the venturi jet) and probably reduces the Energy Factor of the pump by more than half. It also does not seem to allow a swirl to be engineered in the pool like traditional wall returns do (directional heads). Probably a better way: traditional, unimpeded wall returns (a swirl can be engineered) where a pump at lower rpm circulates more water for the same cost as running the venturi skimmers at a higher pump RPM requirement. I have no data on Venturi skimmers for these assumptions, but I have run experiments with venturi nozzle wall returns in my own pool...that data wasn't good...I took the nozzles back.
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jon
Wow, thank you very much for the in-depth explanation of your experiences regarding some of these systems.
Many thanks to Rich D and KDpoolguy as well for sharing their experiences and comments above!!
This has become an informative thread with lots of different perspectives and experiences.
I hope more members will continue to share their experiences with these systems, so others considering the same will have many perspectives to consider.
Thank you all!
r.
Wow, thank you very much for the in-depth explanation of your experiences regarding some of these systems.
Many thanks to Rich D and KDpoolguy as well for sharing their experiences and comments above!!
This has become an informative thread with lots of different perspectives and experiences.
I hope more members will continue to share their experiences with these systems, so others considering the same will have many perspectives to consider.
Thank you all!
r.
I'll chime in on the Venturi system and say I had no clue what it even was when we got the whole system all i know is it came with the setup but I can say when I played with it and adjusted the valve that thing had suction like a toilet bowl ! the down side is when the pump is running and you are swimming and making enough ruckus in the pool that the skimmer level goes down it also sounds like a toilet flushing lol.
I love this thread. Thanks so much for everyone that shared. We are in the process of selecting a pool builder, and the design we like the best is from a PB who primarily does IFC systems. After researching here and elsewhere, my main concerns were potential for leaks and handling of leaf debris. We have a large green space behind our yard with tons of trees and I’m not sure how bad the leaf problem will be. I think my concerns about potential for leaks I can live with. The debris issue TBD.