How to detect a full skimmer?

hildebrau

Member
Feb 1, 2023
7
Austin, TX
I have a Hayward Omnilogic panel, and several Hayward TriStar VS 950 pumps. Two of those pull from skimmers.. one of those powers our Hayward/Paramount In-Floor cleaning system (pop up heads). That in-floor skimmer seems to get full after storms, leaves falling, pollen, you name it. I will walk outside and hear the pump struggling.. pulling in air from who knows where as the full skimmer starves it of water.

I'm also into "home automation" with Home Assistant, Hubitat, SmartThings, you name it.. zigbee, wifi, zwave, yada yada.

I'm wondering what creative ideas people have come up with to alert themselves of a "full skimmer" situation where the pump is starving.
I had thought about a "smart" pressure gauge on the In-Floor pump. The dumb gauge that's screwed into it currently showed me 9 PSI when it was starved w/ a full skimmer, and then about 18 PSI when the skimmer was cleaned out. I felt that was backwards; but what do I know??? Is that normal type of PSI readings for this type of situation? If so, perhaps this smart gauge) could be purchased if it were to ever not be SOLD OUT again. It's terribly expensive, however.

I thought about building a decibel (sound) monitor w/ an ESP chip. I even bought some of the stuff required to pull that off from Temu; but haven't worked up the courage to try it out yet. Who knows what kind of false positives I'd pick up from various outdoor noises. The idea of trying to program it JUST RIGHT to filter out all the normal noises just makes me want to not even try. LOL.
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I read about @peterolson07 on here using a Shelly 1PM to monitor watt draw on their pump. I like that idea; but can my 220V pump be wired up through one of those Shelly 1PM's safely? Where can I put that Shelly? I guess it'd have to go into the Omnilogic electrical panel between the breaker and the pump? I'd imagine it's a double pull breaker. I'm not sure the 1PM can support that wiring configuration, can it?

Or am I making this all too complicated? Perhaps Omnilogic has something built in already that can do what I want? Maybe with an additional flow meter somewhere?


Thoughts? Ideas?

Thank you!
 
I'm wondering what creative ideas people have come up with to alert themselves of a "full skimmer" situation where the pump is starving.
I had thought about a "smart" pressure gauge on the In-Floor pump. The dumb gauge that's screwed into it currently showed me 9 PSI when it was starved w/ a full skimmer, and then about 18 PSI when the skimmer was cleaned out. I felt that was backwards; but what do I know??? Is that normal type of PSI readings for this type of situation?
That is exactly what you should expect:

Filter pressure higher than normal, return side restriction (e.g. filter dirty)
Filter pressure lower than normal, suction side restriction and/or impeller clog

In both cases, flow rate decreases because of the restriction. The filter pressure behaves different in each case because of the location of the restriction.

Higher restriction in the return path, increases filter pressure because of the higher head loss in the return path even with lower flow rate.

Higher restriction in the suction path, decreases filter pressure because of lower head loss in the return path due to the lower flow rate.

Having electronic filter pressure readings are a good solution for monitoring both conditions.
 
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Pull your pump data in Home Assistant and then set up some alarms when it goes out of scope.
Katodude, do you have any details on HOW to do that? I've discovered two Omnilogic HACS; but the documentation is not newbie friendly, I'm finding.
That said, I am digging into this option currently to see what I can figure out.

Having electronic filter pressure readings are a good solution for monitoring both conditions.
Thanks for the words of encouragement. Do you or anyone else have any suggested "electronic/smart" pressure gauges for such pool monitoring functionality? That one I linked to has been out of stock for over a year and Dang if it isn't expensive. I don't mind building something if there are decent instructions out there.

Thanks all!
 
Do you have a SWG? The OmniLogic can use the SWG flow switch to shut down the system when there is no flow so there really is no need to monitor flow.
 
My DIY controller utilizes a current sensor to determine the current drawn by the pump: https://www.senvainc.com/catalog/documents/downloadcenter/C-2344 Installation Manual.pdf

Here is a chart showing VSP pump's current within an 11-hours long day:
vsp_current_whole_day.png

As per Senva, the sensor maker, its accuracy is 2% of the full scale 0-10V at the output. The sensor has three selectable ranges: 30, 60 and 100A. The pool controller runs node-red program on Raspberry Pi and utilizes Building Automation HAT from Sequent Microsystems, which accepts inputs 0-10V. To obtain the desired range of 0-10A, I selected the 30A sensor range and wrapped the pump's feeding wire around it 3 times.

The chart above shows the pump priming @2200 RPM (2.2A), then switching to cleaning with Polaris @1800 RPM (1.3A), then switching to chlorinating @1600 RPM (1A). Next, every 2 hours the pump is switched for 15 minutes to the cleaning speed @1800 RPM for more intense skimming (there are many trees in the neighborhood and the wind hardly ever stops).
Finally, the pump is turned off, drawing about 0.1A in the standby mode.

In node-red I defined current ranges for each speed at normal conditions. Any out-of-range value, which will happen when the flow is limited, generates an alarm - an email sent to my pool's email acount (yes, Google lets you create application email accounts tied to your personal account).
 
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Do you have a SWG? The OmniLogic can use the SWG flow switch to shut down the system when there is no flow so there really is no need to monitor flow.
No SWG here. (yet) I'm still dumping liquid chlorine in every other day or so. I have an analog/dumb flow meter in one of my pipes; but that doesn't help my automation dreams. ;(

My DIY controller utilizes a current sensor to determine the current drawn by the pump: https://www.senvainc.com/catalog/documents/downloadcenter/C-2344 Installation Manual.pdf
@hexabc, do you have any graph or data examples of your current draw while your skimmer is clogged up? I bet I can find some amp metering clamps that are compatible with HA. Hopefully ones that will fit inside the Omnilogic electrical panel! Anyone have any suggestions on that? That Senva one looked pretty big; but I guess I don't see dimensions. Do you have any pictures of your install? Thank you!
 
You might also be able to detect it by monitoring filter pressure. I have a cheap digital pressure gauge that I have on my filter and can graph my filter pressure over time.
 
No SWG here. (yet) I'm still dumping liquid chlorine in every other day or so. I have an analog/dumb flow meter in one of my pipes; but that doesn't help my automation dreams. ;(


@hexabc, do you have any graph or data examples of your current draw while your skimmer is clogged up? I bet I can find some amp metering clamps that are compatible with HA. Hopefully ones that will fit inside the Omnilogic electrical panel! Anyone have any suggestions on that? That Senva one looked pretty big; but I guess I don't see dimensions. Do you have any pictures of your install? Thank you!
I do not store any historical data in my pool controller - the charts are based on 12-hours memory buffer in node-red. I did some testing by limiting the water intake, where the current dropped by about 0.1A @1600 RPM (10% of 1A).

You will find the sensor size and other info in the link I provided in my previous post.
 

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I bought this one on eBay. I am sure they sell them on Amazon as well. It’s been working great.

What do you have it connected to? Probably ultimately your NodeJSPool Controller. I'd need to get a D1mini or someshit with an ADC input.. I was googling around and found this similar thread; but I didn't really see any substantial answers in there, so I'm worried if I buy these parts, it'll just end up on my project drawer forever. Does anyone have any pointers to how to pull off a "smart pressure gauge" for the pool? If I found an ESPHOME (or other HomeAssistant compatible) controller with multiple ADC inputs, then I could hook up smart gauges to all of my pumps and filter.

Any pointers in the right direction for this lost soul? ;) Thank you!
 
I have it connected to my NodeJSPool Controller.

You will need to have a 5v power supply and something to read 0-5v. You then convert the voltage reading to a pressure reading.