Hot Water

[Old Guard]

I have been pumping 4 gallons of industrial bleach nightly into my 125,000 gallon reservoir pool since Memorial Day and it has been a pretty stable 3-5 in the morning and 1-2 at the end of the day. Recently, I had to up that to 5 gallons. Yesterday, I turned up the dial to 6½ gallons. This morning the FC tested 0. They put three gallons of 12½% in the pool and it tested 1 PPM 30 minutes later. I personally put in three more gallons, cooled down the water sample and tested again. I got 2 PPM (should have been at least 6). Next I tested the bleach which was only packed 2 weeks ago. 15% is what I got. The water is 91.2° F. CYA is 25 PPM. I took a sample to the pool store. They got FC of 1.13 and TC 1.44. What in the world is going on here? I'm supposed to be off on a trip but dare not leave until I grt my hands and head wrapped around what is happening here.

FWIIW my 400,000 gallon outdoor pool is doing just fine with 11.875 gallons per night going in.

 

[pjt]

How are you testing FC and CYA?

Perform a OCLT

Round up your CYA to the nearest 10 (round up 25 to 30). For a CYA of 30, your FC floor should be 4-6. You don't have enough FC. Chlorine / CYA Chart

Can you meter your liquid chlorine over the course of the day or are you only able to add once a day?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I suggest you dose the pool with a known amount of chlorine and accurately measure your FC after the sun goes down. Then measure again in the morning before the sun shines. If your overnight loss is greater than 1ppm, something is growing in the water.

 

[Old Guard]

All right. I'll try that tomorrow. I did go out of town after things seemed to get under control and just got back. Too late to try that test today. JoyfulNoise, I did get that bleach test kit you recommended, and it is pretty cool. Its weak link is measuring that initial 0.5 ml of bleach.

pjt. I am using Taylor 0001, 0002 and 0003 reagents and a Hi comparator to gauge chlorine content. At my two outdoor pools, the water temps have recently been starting at 89 and ending at 93. The guard shacks where the reagents are kept are open air. Our current protocol is to keep the reagents in the fridge until we take a sample. Then we take the reagents out of the fridge and put the sample in there for 30 minutes before we test. My outdoor chlorine pumps have a maximum output of 15 GPD. I think I can put chlorine in as often as 24 times a day for as little as 1 minute or as many as 59 minutes.

All of our liquid chlorine comes from the same source (Harcros). It is usually barreled 5-10 days before it is delivered. It is marked as 12½%, usually initially tests at 15% and can crash to as low as 7½% if left in the sun for as little as three weeks even in a well sealed barrel. Even in our current 95-100°F range, it does not seem to degrade substantially in a month if you keep it in the shade.

One of my issues is that the people doing at least half of these tests are high school students. Precision technique is hard to communicate and even harder to enforce. Heck, I can't even get them to do them at all about half of the time.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If finances permit it, you might invest in a good photometer kit for the younglings to use. Taylor makes an excellent photometer. Then you can keep your liquid reagents for backup testing and to double check the work they are doing.

For 0.5mL sampling, I would either get a very fine diabetic syringe or purchase an accurate Eppendorf pipette. They have both manual and electronic versions for high accuracy.

 

[pjt]

I am using Taylor 0001, 0002 and 0003 reagents and a Hi comparator to gauge chlorine content.

You need a FAS-DPD test kit. It comes bundled with many kits, including the TF-100 and K-2006C. It's also a standalone kit (K-1515-A and K-1515-C). How are you testing CYA?

My outdoor chlorine pumps have a maximum output of 15 GPD. I think I can put chlorine in as often as 24 times a day for as little as 1 minute or as many as 59 minutes.

I think you'll have better results metering the LC into the pool throughout the day instead of one massive dose at night.

 

[Mdragger88]

I agree w/ the above- u have the ability to maintain proper fc target levels FC/CYA Levelscontinuously around the clock. Doing so would prevent the issue you’re having . Allowing fc to fall below minimum for your cya at anytime risks algae & other nasties & allows for person to person transmission of pathogens. Being as how you can’t properly perform the SLAM Process without closing the pool for an extended period it would behoove you to ensure adequate fc levels at all times.

 

[Old Guard]

If finances permit it, you might invest in a good photometer kit for the younglings to use. Taylor makes an excellent photometer. Then you can keep your liquid reagents for backup testing and to double check the work they are doing.

For 0.5mL sampling, I would either get a very fine diabetic syringe or purchase an accurate Eppendorf pipette. They have both manual and electronic versions for high accuracy.

I have a box of those 1ml syringes. I'll use those. The Taylor Photometer you are referring to—XpressFlex? We are presently testing 4 pools 3 X per day except Sunday 2 times. I've looked into some of the cassette-based tests. We would have to limit that to once a week or something. The pool store is getting tired of me having tests done and never buying any of their product so I need to find another way.

 

[Old Guard]

You need a FAS-DPD test kit. It comes bundled with many kits, including the TF-100 and K-2006C. It's also a standalone kit (K-1515-A and K-1515-C). How are you testing CYA?


I think you'll have better results metering the LC into the pool throughout the day instead of one massive dose at night.

I have asked for a FAS-DPD kit and a magnetic stirrer weeks ago. I guess I'll have to ask again.

The night dosing thing was a suggested solution for my inability to SLAM. Better to get it pretty high at least once per day than keeping it at 2 all day and all night. During the week my reservoir pool gats slammed with about 150 nasty little kids every day. My 15 GPD pump cannot keep up with that and the heat and the sun. It was also suggested that CYA makes a big part of the chlorine ineffective even though it tests as free. I've decided to ignore that and shoot for 50 PPM CYA in both outdoor pools. The swings are just too big without it. Leslie's is giving me my CYA levels but I know how to use the Taylor test for that as well.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

@Old Guard

I think it’s best to remind everyone when you post that what you have is a commercial/public pool and so the normal TFP rules do not apply. You might either put it directly in the title when you post or make a bold face type statement at the top of the original post. That way people don’t waste time giving advice that doesn’t apply.

As far as testing goes - what are your local and state requirements? And, what parameters are you required to keep a log of ?

 

[pjt]

My 15 GPD pump cannot keep up with that and the heat and the sun.

You'll need more chlorine, one way or the other. When there are no swimmers, LC can always be hand poured into the pool to augment the pump.

During the week my reservoir pool gats slammed with about 150 nasty little kids every day.

That's a massive bather load and FC demand.

I've decided to ignore that and shoot for 50 PPM CYA in both outdoor pools.

For your location, I think that's sensible. Since you're operating a commercial pool, what constraints do you have for chemistry management?

Leslie's is giving me my CYA levels but I know how to use the Taylor test for that as well.

You'll achieve more accurate and precise results with your test kit. The CYA takes some time and experience to build proficiency, but don't let that dissuade you from mastering it.

 

[IceShadow]

As far as testing goes - what are your local and state requirements? And, what parameters are you required to keep a log of ?

I think we established in his previous thread that Mississippi didn't have pool regulation requirements.

http://www.msdh.state.ms.us/msdhsite/_static/resources/144.pdf

"The Mississippi State Department of Health does not regulate swimming pools and spas. No permits are required. These guidelines are recommendations only; they are not requirements."

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I think we established in his previous thread that Mississippi didn't have pool regulation requirements.

http://www.msdh.state.ms.us/msdhsite/_static/resources/144.pdf

"The Mississippi State Department of Health does not regulate swimming pools and spas. No permits are required. These guidelines are recommendations only; they are not requirements."

That’s at the state level. I would also check county and city level requirements. It would seem highly unusual to have no regulation at all when it comes to a commercial swimming pool operating for public use. Recreational water illnesses (RWI’s) are quite common in public aquatic facilities and the lack of regulation would make that worse.

 

[Old Guard]

@Old Guard

I think it’s best to remind everyone when you post that what you have is a commercial/public pool and so the normal TFP rules do not apply. You might either put it directly in the title when you post or make a bold face type statement at the top of the original post. That way people don’t waste time giving advice that doesn’t apply.

As far as testing goes - what are your local and state requirements? And, what parameters are you required to keep a log of ?

This is all I have been able to find: http://www.msdh.state.ms.us/msdhsite/_static/resources/144.pdf

 

[Mdragger88]

I am very surprised that
The Pearl River Valley Water Supply District
Who governs, maintains, & controls the Ross Barnett Reservoir & it’s recreational areas doesn’t provide some kind of guidelines as they are in charge of the drinking water for the area & boast about their rigorous testing. Sorry about the bold print -

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I am very surprised that
The Pearl River Valley Water Supply District
Who governs, maintains, & controls the Ross Barnett Reservoir & it’s recreational areas doesn’t provide some kind of guidelines as they are in charge of the drinking water for the area & boast about their rigorous testing. Sorry about the bold print -

STOP YELLING AT US!!

 

[Mdragger88]

I made the dreaded copy & paste mistake…
Also once I’m in a quote box I can’t find my way out

First world forum problems