Helping my inlaws balance water - high CYA - your help please?

I’m not understanding why the water can’t be replaced with well water? There’s a mention of a well, but then talk starts about trucking water in…

Is the well slow? Lots of sediment? Too much iron? We can fight sediment or iron with pre filtering for a lot less than several hundred bucks a load of water.

There’s no point in a SLAM with a group of people who aren’t passionate about it. It’s a fool’s errand.
Water replacement is the only answer right now.
 
Thanks for your honesty. I understand that this is not a good situation. At least I got him to stop adding pucks - he had already added a couple this season! I think he now understands CYA and how it builds up at least.

We are going to get more rain tonight, I may be able to convince him to dump water down to low skimmer level and let the rain fill it back up. That would be about 10%. Diluted CYA test was 55, so total 110-120. Not good.

I will talk to him tomorrow and see if I can convince him to just do a big water dump and call the water truck. I just think he won't do it. He's an old farmer, and would probably say screw it, just swim in it and run the pump.

I will try to do the math on the Cl expense. It might be about the same to just get water.
 
We are going to get more rain tonight, I may be able to convince him to dump water down to low skimmer level and let the rain fill it back up. That would be about 10%. Diluted CYA test was 55, so total 110-120. Not good.

I will talk to him tomorrow and see if I can convince him to just do a big water dump and call the water truck. I just think he won't do it. He's an old farmer, and would probably say screw it, just swim in it and run the pump.

I will try to do the math on the Cl expense. It might be about the same to just get water.
Consider it 120...always round up. If you did the CYA test in the dark with interior lighting it will be even higher than that (back at you @Newdude).

I can't fault the screw it, just swim in it...I remember my grandmother cutting the seatbelts out of her brand new 1974 Comet with a butcher knife. Times have changed. We know more. I can't understand putting family health at risk for $300. I even think my grandmother would understand.

I feel for you. Best of luck.
 
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@reggiehammond - His well is not that great, in terms of water quantity. He used to occasionally run dry, and this summer has been drier than most. The "creek" is mostly runoff from local fields and this time of year we would trade one problem (CYA) for another (Phosphorous, and go knows what else). I spoke to him again, and explained how he can watch the weather and when we have storms coming (like today) dump down to the bottom of the inlet, and let the storm refill it (if enough rain). We dumped about 4"of water, and he had dumped/backwashed about 2" last night before the super chlorination. He absolutely will not call the water wagon.

So - having no other choice, I am proceeding with the likely expensive proposition to attempt to get his pool safe.

Last night based on yesterday afternoon's numbers and the pool calc (SLAM level 39.5), I had him put 4.5 gal 10% bleach in after dark. Tested at FC 41.5 after 30 minutes. Went to bed.
Re-tested at 10am, FC 26.5, CC 0.5, backwashed out 4" of water, Added 1.5 gal 10% bleach per calculator, 30 min later tested and FC at 40.0
Pool is notably clearer than 24 hours ago, I can "See" the bottom slightly.
Next test late this afternoon.

I found this article interesting, sounds like the methodology used here but gives a nice overview of some of the deeper stuff:
 
Sounds like progress...

We got the deep end here. ChemGeek is Richard Falk...2007

 
Diluted CYA was 55 (60 rounded up) as noted a few posts ago. So total 110-120. With the rain and several recent backwashes it might be down to 100. He would need to drain half the water at least, he will not do so.
My only other choice is to simply walk away, and he will just become frustrated and probably make it worse with more algecide and pucks.
 

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Diluted CYA was 55 (60 rounded up) as noted a few posts ago. So total 110-120. With the rain and several recent backwashes it might be down to 100. He would need to drain half the water at least, he will not do so.
My only other choice is to simply walk away, and he will just become frustrated and probably make it worse with more algecide and pucks.
@kstoutdog - I love it! That is not at all a half bad idea... I will talk to my wife. He might not take it too well though, since hes about to drive his tractor through that pool I think....LOL
@jbrinkerhoff Hey I'm right down the road from you...

I'm not sure who they use for water, but it's worth shopping around. Waterboy Water Hauling out of Moravia has a good reputation. Fighting that pool this summer will almost definitely cost more than the $400 you're looking at.

Driving the tractor through the pool is always an option too. When we bought our house we knew it had a pool, but couldn't look look at it because it was winter and we had a lot of snow. The woman admitted that she hadn't kept up on it as she got older and hadn't opened it in two years...

When spring came we found out that we were the proud owners of a 50+ year old pool that was literally falling apart. We looked at having it removed but the cost was something like $12,000 including the fill...So instead we spend $14,000 on repair and not a day goes by that I don't wish we'd just filled it in :ROFLMAO:
 
As a side note - now that I am more well educated, I can't believe how the popular consensus / every big box store / testkit / etc. just continue to sell, promote etc. trichlor and a simple OTO/pH kit and/or test strips as a way to manage a pool. I mean I guess if you have a cheap intex/knock-off pool from walmart, it probably won't matter for a summer or two, since those typically get drained anyway. But soooo many people just buy the pucks and a floater. Thats all my father in law apparently ever used (plus shock and algecide) for years. This CYA rise was inevitable! Especially for somoene on a well who conserves water.

Luckily I had found some earlier (not on here) knowledge a few years back on NOT using TriChlor pucks (unless maybe you want to raise CYA and happen to have some lying around). I had been managing MY pool via borax, liquid chlorine, and occasionally powder shock for 3-4 years now. I joined up here when I messed things up ROYALLY this spring trying to switch to a SWG. Now I feel I am doing much better, and the real test kit is SO much more accurate! Really the ONLY test that the strips or cheap kits are good for is pH. I guess the ALK and FC is not too bad on the Clorox test strips. But the rest of the tests are just wildly off. And the CYA test is almost totally useless!

Definitely this site is worth its weight in gold (what does HTTP weigh anyway...)
 
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@jbrinkerhoff Hey I'm right down the road from you...

I'm not sure who they use for water, but it's worth shopping around. Waterboy Water Hauling out of Moravia has a good reputation. Fighting that pool this summer will almost definitely cost more than the $400 you're looking at.

Driving the tractor through the pool is always an option too. When we bought our house we knew it had a pool, but couldn't look look at it because it was winter and we had a lot of snow. The woman admitted that she hadn't kept up on it as she got older and hadn't opened it in two years...

When spring came we found out that we were the proud owners of a 50+ year old pool that was literally falling apart. We looked at having it removed but the cost was something like $12,000 including the fill...So instead we spend $14,000 on repair and not a day goes by that I don't wish we'd just filled it in :ROFLMAO:
Hi Neighbor!
I think he has used them too, but the local guy here in Auburn is a bit cheaper. With diesel so expensive now, they are all about $100/2000 gal I think. I will call that one in Moravia and check. I'd love to just DO IT for him while he's out of town or something ... but summer will be over before I get the chance (still might, that CYA won't disappear over winter)

That's a funny anecdote... You know what they say - a pool is a hole in the ground you will with money. (as is a boat a hole in the water you do the same with - and I have both unfortunately...).

My wife has dreams of an inground when our 1991 above ground finally dies (soon). I do NOT want to do that, at least I can remove an above ground with nothing but a ... tractor. If necessary.
 
As a side note - now that I am more well educated, I can't believe how the popular consensus / every big box store / testkit / etc. just continue to sell, promote etc. trichlor and a simple OTO/pH kit and/or test strips as a way to manage a pool. I mean I guess if you have a cheap intex/knock-off pool from walmart, it probably won't matter for a summer or two, since those typically get drained anyway. But soooo many people just buy the pucks and a floater. Thats all my father in law apparently ever used (plus shock and algecide) for years. This CYA rise was inevitable! Especially for somoene on a well who conserves water.

You can get away with quite a bit of "lackluster" water care with a temporary pool. Like you said, if it's drained every year the CYA rise probably won't ever be an issue.
 
So this may sound a bit odd, but is your Father in Law a pharmacist by any chance?

I know a guy, in NY, 11k gallons, above ground, 100+ CYA, overwhelmed, refusing to drain........ HOW many of them can there be ??????
 
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So this may sound a bit odd, but is your Father in Law a pharmacist by any chance?

I know a guy, in NY, 11k gallons, above ground, 100+ CYA, overwhelmed, refusing to drain........ HOW many of them can there be ??????
Nope, retired. Worked for the local utility for many years. I bet there are a lot of them out there!
 
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Just a note to pile on.. kidding.

Dumping a little water at a time will do less than you might expect. Every time you pull some out, and some in, you dilute. You get diminishing returns as you go along, so it’ll be really slow to see any progress.

Just know there’s fairly inexpensive pre-filtering options for well water that might be up to the task if the water source is usable.
 
@reggiehammond - Yeah, I'm aware of the diminishing returns thing. I told him to try to dump "as much as he could each time he does it" but he will still have to dump probably (cumulatively) the whole volume of the pool to get it down to 50% of the current CYA level. Absolutely the best would be to dump half right now and call the water wagon. (They are 1+ week out on delivery though).

Well is totally usable, just does not have the volume. He will not abuse that well. He will let his big garden die before running that well on it (he does suck water from the ditch/creek to water the garden in summer now, but in years gone by I recall "drought" killing much of it, he would not run the hose...).

No real good options.

I proposed the idea of "water for father's day" to my wife, but she already bought him stuff and did not like the idea. Oh well.

I guess we will see what running a pool at 100 CYA looks like. I will be sure to report back occasionally, if nothing else this can become a cautionary thread for others in the future.

One interesting thought I had - Since I converted MY pool to SWG this year, my SWG has been able to keep up EASILY on the lowest possible setting. In fact I have to run it only about 50% of the time on low. I have had to add a timer to my pump. I think even at a rediculous 100 CYA I could run my pool using nothing but the SWG.
 
I assume, since its never mentioned, that the various "CYA removers" which I see sold is, at best, tricky, and at worst bunk?

#1 - Bio-Active Cyanuric Acid Reducer
(it is apparently a strain(s) of bacteria that feed on CYA, with Ammonia as a waste product, then another strain that feeds on the ammonia converting it to Nitrate, then Nitrite - I.e. your pool must become a giant freshwater fishtank and go through the "freshwater fish tank cycle" for this to work). For this to work have to have Cl to get to ZERO, have no algecide, proper pH and temp, and wait another few days to be safe.
Seems like this one would work, but it can go sideways real easy and wind you up with a pool full of Ammonia or worse. Reports of both working and catastrophe happening.

#2: Further research finds this other method of removing CYA using Aluminum Sulfate:
This method seems to have support of some industry professionals. Water chem has to be spot on, and have to be able to vac to waste carefully. Sounds messy but doable.
(instructions from above, to save a click)

Aluminum Sulfate-CYA Removal Method:
[Edit: looks like this is mostly debunked Single ]

1. Adjust pH to 7.0 (this is critical).
2. Adjust Total Alkalinity to 80-120 ppm, Calcium Hardness to 200-400 ppm, Water Temperature to 70-90 degrees Fahrenheit (this is critical).
3. Ensure the pool is free of heavy debris that could stir the ‘floc’ upon vacuum to waste.
4. Test Cyanuric Acid Level.
5. Filter Preparation —
Sand and DE Filters: With the pump off, manipulate the multiport valve to ‘recirculate’ position.
Cartridge Filters: With the pump off, remove the filter element and then reassemble without it.
6. Broadcast Aluminum Sulfate at a rate of 8.33 lbs per 10,000 gallons of water.
7. Set the time clock to run the pump for two hours and then shut off.
Remove the ‘ON’ tripper from the time clock or set automation to service, and set an egg timer to avoid unintentional circulation.
8. Allow the pump to remain off for a minimum of 12 hours. Do NOT allow the pump to run again until the entire process is complete, and elements are replaced with valves in the correct run positions.
9. With a PORTABLE VACUUM SYSTEM, vacuum the floc to waste at a pace slow enough not to stir or ‘break’ the floc.
10. Test residual aluminum level (should be < 0.2 ppm).
11. Test Cyanuric Acid level.
Overall, it is a fairly simple process to do. The pH, alkalinity and water temp are critical. Get those three parameters set, calculate your pool volume, measure your doses and follow these instructions above for some clear water, a happy client and a smile on your face. If you have yet to do a treatment like this, it is a cool process. The water clouds up, and when you come back the next day, it’s all sitting on the bottom of the pool just waiting to be vacuumed out. Grab your tools and equipment, clean it up, refill/ rebalance the water, and you’re done.

#3 Mystery bag (adsorption):
Several of these products exist, all look to be the same. maybe they work, I can't find much evidence, reviews are 2:1 against.

Not looking to start a flame war - but looking for proper discussion around these methods. #2 sounds actually promising and would at the very least probably not make the situation worse, Edit - see link above for mostly debunked, file under more research needed but probably altering the CYA test results. #1 sounds plausable but tricky, and #3 sounds like snake oil (or there is one real mfg and a lot of fake copycats).
 
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