Help Wiring A New SWG

[DanF]

Hi,

Looking to see if I can tackle wiring a new Circupool RJ45 so that the SWG comes on when my pump comes on. I have very basic electrical skills and I'm not averse to calling in an electrician, but figured I'd leverage the good folks on this forum to see if the job is within my pay grade.

Attached are some pics of my electrical setup at the equipment pad.

I have a standard Intermatic timer box with the yellow wheel; however I no longer use the wheel because my 2-speed pump (hi/lo) has an electronic programmable timer built into it. The pump then gets wired to a breaker inside the electrical box containing the timer wheel. This box also houses a breaker for my water feature pump, and switches for my pool light and pump. There is also a 50 amp breaker at my main breaker box which controls the entire sub-panel at the equipment pad.

Given what you see in the attached, is this a pretty straightforward job that I could be walked through online?

Thanks!

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

With a 240v configuration, the two load lines (to SWG control panel) attach to terminals 2 and 4 on the timer. The green wire goes to ground. According to your instructions, the unit is already set up for 240v. You would need to sync the rotary timer to your pump timer.

 

[DanF]

Thanks Mike. That seems easier than I thought. I would however really like to avoid using the rotary timer, and have the SWG come on/off whenever the pump does. Is there any way to do that?

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

I'm not familiar with your style of pump, but I doubt there's a way to make it work. Some vs pumps have built-in relays that control a SWG. Another option is to use a Wi-Fi timer box.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

I use this timer to control my waterfall/rock slide pump. It would work well for a SWG assuming you have a decent Wi-Fi signal at the equipment pad..

DEWENWILS Outdoor Smart Wi-Fi Outlet Box, Heavy Duty 40A 120-277 VAC 2HP Wireless Controller Timer Switch for Pool Water Heater SPA, Compatible with Smart Phone, Alexa, Google Assistant, UL Listed: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

DEWENWILS Outdoor Smart Wi-Fi Outlet Box, Heavy Duty 40A 120-277 VAC 2HP Wireless Controller Timer Switch for Pool Water Heater SPA, Compatible with Smart Phone, Alexa, Google Assistant, UL Listed: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

 

[DanF]

Thanks Mike. I haven't tested my WiFi signal out at the pad yet, but I'm betting not that good. I guess using my rotary clock to control the SWG isn't too bad, just need to remember to make sure that my SWG timer isn't outside the hours of my pump timer.

 

[-MacGyver-]

Cannot remember which post I have seen it, but some members use a current detector device. This monitors one/both power wires to the pump and detects current flow, and turns on the SWGC when detected. Some current detectors are adjustable, which you would need for a pump that will always have power to run its timer. which in your case the built-in timer on your 2sp pump. You set to detect the current when in low/high speed, versus off, to then power on the SWGC.

 

[mguzzy]

Thanks Mike. I haven't tested my WiFi signal out at the pad yet, but I'm betting not that good. I guess using my rotary clock to control the SWG isn't too bad, just need to remember to make sure that my SWG timer isn't outside the hours of my pump timer.

Some people work in a 30 minute buffer between when the pump comes on and the SWG turns on. The two clocks are not likely going to stay synched.
Yeah, I gotta find that current detector post. I wonder how well that worked for him.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Something like this -

CR Magnetics CR4395-EL-240-330-B-CD-ELR-I Current Sensing Relay with Internal Transformer, 240 VAC, Energized on Low Trip, 3 - 30 AAC Trip Range, 2 - 25 Second Trip on Delay

CR Magnetics CR4395-EL-240-330-B-CD-ELR-I Current Sensing Relay with Internal Transformer, 240 VAC, Energized on Low Trip, 3 - 30 AAC Trip Range, 2 - 25 Second Trip on Delay: Electronic Relays: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

CR Magnetics CR4395-EL-240-330-B-CD-ELR-I Current Sensing Relay with Internal Transformer, 240 VAC, Energized on Low Trip, 3 - 30 AAC Trip Range, 2 - 25 Second Trip on Delay: Electronic Relays: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

smile.amazon.com

It will control 240VAC by sensing the current through one leg of the pump. It also has an adjustable trip delay to avoid transients turning it on. Would require panel mounting and some experimenting to figure out what low speed current you’d need to trip it.

 

[DanF]

Some people work in a 30 minute buffer between when the pump comes on and the SWG turns on. The two clocks are not likely going to stay synched.

Yep - that's my fear in using my old-school rotary timer to control my SWG. Also, my 2-speed pump allows for different schedules during the week vs on the weekends. So in order to take advantage of Time-of-Use electricity pricing I run my pump at different times during the week vs the weekend. A rotary timer won't handle that.

I feel like I am stuck between full-out automation controlling everything and having a simple 1-speed pump which can easily be wired to turn on with the SWG. The demand for an easy solution will increase as the 1-speed pumps become outlawed. I'm definitely not technical enough to woire a sensor/relay; not sure I could explain to an electrician what I wanted! OK, rant over.

Yeah, I gotta find that current detector post. I wonder how well that worked for him.

Was it this one?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Your situation is made more complicated because the pump has its own on-board timer, that is definitely not the norm for the vast majority of 2-speed pool pumps. Pumps also rarely come with external relays (either analog or digital) for tripping other equipment so it makes retrofitting dissimilar brands of pumps and SWGs more complicated. Unfortunately there’s no simple solution in your case.

 

[C0d3Sp4c3]

Yep - that's my fear in using my old-school rotary timer to control my SWG. Also, my 2-speed pump allows for different schedules during the week vs on the weekends. So in order to take advantage of Time-of-Use electricity pricing I run my pump at different times during the week vs the weekend. A rotary timer won't handle that.

I feel like I am stuck between full-out automation controlling everything and having a simple 1-speed pump which can easily be wired to turn on with the SWG. The demand for an easy solution will increase as the 1-speed pumps become outlawed. I'm definitely not technical enough to woire a sensor/relay; not sure I could explain to an electrician what I wanted! OK, rant over.


Was it this one?

The simple solution is to configure the SWCG to operate at 120VAC. Get a 15A, 7-day programmable digital outdoor timer like this. Just plug it to the service outlet at the equipment pad. My swcg is set to turn on 5 mins after the pump turns on and then off 5 mins before the pump turns off at any given time and day the pump is scheduled to run.

 

[mguzzy]

Yeah that was it.. Matts post above is a better route to explore..
I just set the time on my intermatic timer for one runtime a day during the low rate times... then if for whatever reason, I need more time on the weekend, I just run it mannually . I set some extra stops on my timer so it turns off on its own.

 

[-MacGyver-]

@DanF - that was one, but more complex as it was separate components. There is another one that is an all in one type thing, with a potentiometer that is used to adjust the sensing.

I'll try to find the post(s) I saw it in, or the device itself.

 

[-MacGyver-]

Found it! In this thread someone was asking about possible options, and the member that had the solution I was referring to posted a reply. Here it the link to the reply.

Note, he has this in a two gang box, so it looks cramped and possibly complicated. But this could be put into a bigger box, and seems fairly straight forward and not as complicated as the picture makes it look.

Would any of these Current Sensor & Relay Combos work?

I was looking at these components. These look simpler and cheaper than the $120 solutions that've been posted so far: Current Sensor & Relay Combos - Functional Devices, Inc. I'm using a circupool SJ-40 SWG and circupool 1.5 HP Smartflo (variable speed pump). According to circupool the SWG can...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[DanF]

I just set the time on my intermatic timer for one runtime a day during the low rate times... then if for whatever reason, I need more time on the weekend, I just run it mannually . I set some extra stops on my timer so it turns off on its own.

Exactly what I used to do back when I had a simple non-programmable one speed pump. Then I went ahead and upgraded! Oh well, at least I am getting the benefit of lower RPM electric costs.

 

[DanF]

Your situation is made more complicated because the pump has its own on-board timer, that is definitely not the norm for the vast majority of 2-speed pool pumps.

Thanks Matt I did not know that most 2-speeds didn't have on-board timers. How do their owners tell the pump when to run at low vs high speed?

 

[DanF]

The simple solution is to configure the SWCG to operate at 120VAC. Get a 15A, 7-day programmable digital outdoor timer like this. Just plug it to the service outlet at the equipment pad. My swcg is set to turn on 5 mins after the pump turns on and then off 5 mins before the pump turns off at any given time and day the pump is scheduled to run.

That looks like a great option. I have instructions on how to convert the SWCG to 120V - looks pretty easy. Can the SWCG be hardwired to the programmable timer with the SWCG's output wires as pictured in the attached?

 

[DanF]

Found it! In this thread someone was asking about possible options, and the member that had the solution I was referring to posted a reply. Here it the link to the reply.

Note, he has this in a two gang box, so it looks cramped and possibly complicated. But this could be put into a bigger box, and seems fairly straight forward and not as complicated as the picture makes it look.

Would any of these Current Sensor & Relay Combos work?

I was looking at these components. These look simpler and cheaper than the $120 solutions that've been posted so far: Current Sensor & Relay Combos - Functional Devices, Inc. I'm using a circupool SJ-40 SWG and circupool 1.5 HP Smartflo (variable speed pump). According to circupool the SWG can...

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks, although it looks a little outta my pay grade from an installation perspective. Plus there's the added task of determining how much current should and shouldn't trigger the sensor. Given my pump's on-board timer, it will always be using some current, even when not running.

 

[-MacGyver-]

From looking at the HD pictures the timer plugs in, and accepts two plugs on the bottom that it controls.

You would also need to get a three prong plug adapter for the end of the power wires for the unit to use with that timer.