Hello from Annapolis, MD

dmbaggett

New member
Jul 1, 2023
3
Annapolis, Md
I have an indoor pool and decided to bite the bullet and learn how to manage the chemistry myself. (I am a nerd at heart so this came naturally.)

I initially got a WaterGuru S2 and it reported off-the-charts FC. (It only reports up to 12.9 and my guess is I was well into the 30s before I reduced it.) I also noticed the water was somewhat cloudy and there were white chalky deposits on the bottom and on the steps. I found TFP via searching for what was causing the white deposits.

After a few days of reading this forum I got Pool Chemistry 101 under my belt and the cause was clear: I’d been using trichlor pucks in a feeder for the last year or so, not really paying attention to the levels and just using test strips periodically. Since this is an indoor pool, you probably know where this is going: FC was too high, yes, but CYA was off the charts (>100) and the chalky white stuff was calcium from the pucks. pH was also high (>8).

Interestingly the WaterGuru reported random and incredible values for TA, CH and CYA. Like CYA of 385 (!). So I took the TFP advice and bought a Taylor test kit and took some real measurements. I still didn’t have a decent CYA number, though, because I didn’t realize you need to look for the black dot in bright sunlight; I was reading it indoors.

I was able to get pH and FC into reasonable ranges with chemicals. But to my dismay, I learned here that there is no way to lower CYA short of water exchange. So using the pump-and-fill exchange method detailed here, I exchanged about 50% of the water in the pool. This got CYA down to ~50 (I learned how to read the black dot test properly) but… now my water was green. :(

Experts here will know my water turned green due to iron in my fill water. The good news is that by running a brand new filter and running the Dolphin pool bot a few times it cleared the iron out in about 24 hours. The Dolphin fine filter was coated in brown; this suggests to me that running the Dolphin multiple times (I probably ran it for 4x 3-hour cycles) is a viable way to remove iron from your water.

I’ve now got it pretty close to ideal, which feels like quite an accomplishment:

FC 7.5
pH 7.7
CYA 45-55
TA 90
CH 340

And of course I‘ll only use liquid chlorine from now on. And even now the WaterGuru reports just absurd numbers for CYA (it says 158 one test and then 350 the next). My observation is that the WaterGuru is actually pretty close to the Taylor readings on FC and pH but is utterly useless on the other three values. So there’s really no reason to use the 5-way tests in my opinion.

Thanks to everyone whose makes TFP such an amazing resource!

Dave
 
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Hey there Dave :wave: My favorite tire store of all time was in Annapolis. Universal Tires.

If you know you have iron in the fill water, put some polyfil (that stuff inside stuffed animal toys) into you skimmer and it can help trap that iron and get it out of there as long as you're seeing it in the water (color of water). Ozonators have been known to add metals to the water also

Metals Added by Alternative Sanitizer Systems

One point to note is that, in recent years, pool builders and equipment manufacturers have been pushing “low chlorine / alternative sanitizer” systems fairly heavily in lieu of traditional chlorine tablet feeders and salt water chlorine generators. These systems still require low levels of chlorine in order to achieve the EPA set standards for sanitation but also pair metal ion systems (Cu or Cu+Ag) with UV Systems and Ozone injectors.

These systems intentionally inject metal ions into pool water as copper metal is an effective algaecide. However, the threshold levels of copper needed are so close to the staining concentrations that these systems put pool water and surfaces at constant risk of staining.
It is TFP’s recommendation that these metal ion systems be avoided at all costs as they are most definitely NOT trouble-free.


Personally I'd toss the Guru out and use a good quality drop test kit as we recommend here. You've got the right kit...use it!
The TA, CYA and CH tests are not useless.... we just tend to run them less often.

Don't forget to test your CC's also. They're often the first clue that something icky is brewing in there....

For Indoor pools you can let your CYA go lower, say 30ppm tops, as you're not competing with the sun which steals FC. Your ozonator may though.

Maddie :flower:
 
Hey there Dave :wave: My favorite tire store of all time was in Annapolis. Universal Tires.

If you know you have iron in the fill water, put some polyfil (that stuff inside stuffed animal toys) into you skimmer and it can help trap that iron and get it out of there as long as you're seeing it in the water (color of water). Ozonators have been known to add metals to the water also

Metals Added by Alternative Sanitizer Systems

One point to note is that, in recent years, pool builders and equipment manufacturers have been pushing “low chlorine / alternative sanitizer” systems fairly heavily in lieu of traditional chlorine tablet feeders and salt water chlorine generators. These systems still require low levels of chlorine in order to achieve the EPA set standards for sanitation but also pair metal ion systems (Cu or Cu+Ag) with UV Systems and Ozone injectors.

These systems intentionally inject metal ions into pool water as copper metal is an effective algaecide. However, the threshold levels of copper needed are so close to the staining concentrations that these systems put pool water and surfaces at constant risk of staining.
It is TFP’s recommendation that these metal ion systems be avoided at all costs as they are most definitely NOT trouble-free.


Personally I'd toss the Guru out and use a good quality drop test kit as we recommend here. You've got the right kit...use it!
The TA, CYA and CH tests are not useless.... we just tend to run them less often.

Don't forget to test your CC's also. They're often the first clue that something icky is brewing in there....

For Indoor pools you can let your CYA go lower, say 30ppm tops, as you're not competing with the sun which steals FC. Your ozonator may though.

Maddie :flower:
Thanks for the advice. I will try to get the CYA lower. on TA/CYA/CH testing I just meant the WaterGuru’s results are useless simply because they are not accurate — not that measuring those things is useless. In fact, I find it pretty fascinating that outside of this forum nobody seems to really understand the relationship between CYA and FC/CC. That seems like a pretty serious omission by the mainstream/traditional sources…

Did not know ozonators add metal. That is unfortunate and from what I’ve read here the efficacy of ozonators is minimal at best? So they are therefore worse than useless?

Dave
 
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I find it pretty fascinating that outside of this forum nobody seems to really understand the relationship between CYA and FC/CC. That seems like a pretty serious omission by the mainstream/traditional sources…

Did not know ozonators add metal. That is unfortunate and from what I’ve read here the efficacy of ozonators is minimal at best? So they are therefore worse than useless?
Well, TPTB *are* starting to take note of the FC/CYA relationship, its just slow to change minds. Not unlike some long standing pool builders who still fuss against putting in salt systems, ignoring that they have been used sucessfully since the 80's. They're set in their ways and change is hard.

We've had folks turn off their ozone or UV devices and never see a difference in their pool water quality. Of course most are outdoor pools. Indoor pools benefit from UV as it helps burn off CC's, since they don't get that benefit from the sun.
Ozone devices have some history of causing respiratory problem on indoor pools.

Maddie :flower:
 
Well, TPTB *are* starting to take note of the FC/CYA relationship, its just slow to change minds. Not unlike some long standing pool builders who still fuss against putting in salt systems, ignoring that they have been used sucessfully since the 80's. They're set in their ways and change is hard.

We've had folks turn off their ozone or UV devices and never see a difference in their pool water quality. Of course most are outdoor pools. Indoor pools benefit from UV as it helps burn off CC's, since they don't get that benefit from the sun.
Ozone devices have some history of causing respiratory problem on indoor pools.

Maddie :flower:
One unrelated question: how often should I change the big cylindrical filter? Mine is a Unicel C-7697.
They’re > $100 so hopefully not monthly….

Dave