Hayward Sense & Dispense install

[LearningAboutPools]

Question:
Liquid chlorine degrades in the heat, how is this addressed as you store the liquid in the hopper outside next to the unit?

(Is it stabilized somehow?)

 

[joboo7777]

I store all Liquid Chlorine directly in the Feeder. I'm sure it loses some potency as it sits which probably contributes to the overall amount of chlorine used. The only stabilizer I have is in the pool.

 

[LeviStraussTx]

@joboo7777 Do you have a UV system, or only Ozone? Have you noticed the Ozone having much effect on ORP? I'm looking at adding something like this to our pool, but I'm somewhat concerned about the UV on mine (it's one unit with both UV and O3). Using unstabilized chlorine, it seems like I would have to use a lot more of it in order to maintain 1-3ppm since the UV would be "killing" any residual free chlorine that goes through it. On the flip side, I'm hopeful the O3 helps increase ORP and thus less actual free chlorine would be required and I could keep that lower, around 1-2ppm. Thoughts?

 

[joboo7777]

Hi, I only have an ozone unit. No UV so I’m not familiar with its effect on chlorine. The Ozonator has positively impacted my ORP reading but not enough for me to definitely say it has made a difference on chlorine consumption. My PB added it for basically nothing so I figured it wouldn’t hurt. If you have concerns you could always turn the O3/UV unit off.

Hope that helps.

 

[LeviStraussTx]

Thanks for the info. I can definitely run it without the UVO3 by using a bypass. That's actually how it has to run when I use the heater. I just can't control the UV and O3 separately, it's all or nothing. I'm going to keep following your updates, especially in regards to how much chemicals you're consuming throughout the year.

 

[joboo7777]

Thanks for the info. I can definitely run it without the UVO3 by using a bypass. That's actually how it has to run when I use the heater. I just can't control the UV and O3 separately, it's all or nothing. I'm going to keep following your updates, especially in regards to how much chemicals you're consuming throughout the year.

Unfortunately I don have much experience with chlorine consumption at higher CYA levels as I installed the sense & dispense only a few months into being a pool owner. From the research I’ve done on this forum and other sites it doesn’t look like there’s a significant difference. I’m at around 4 gallons a week now heading into August so I think I’ve peaked. Wie’ll see how long it will take before it starts to drop.

 

[H-12 1/2 Mike]

What is your LSI with the Omni Logic? I am using 2 gals per week of chlorine @25 ppm CYA and 7.65 ph and 4.0 ppm chlorine but am only able to maintain the ORP between 650 and 675. My daily chlorine dose is dispensed over a 2 hour period between 8:30 pm and 10:30 pm. Should I consider spreading out the chlorine dosage?

 

[joboo7777]

Funny you say that. I find my LSI higher when Calculated by the Omni.. I’m at .16 but pool math CSI has me at .04. I capture everything in Poolmath so feel free to take a look.

what probe are you using? I would think your ORP readings would higher than that at 4ppm FC and 25ppm cya. Earlier in the thread I have a pic of ORP calibration solution. You might want to pick some up to see how accurate the probe is.

I’m not sure it really matters if you spread out the dispensing of chlorine. What is your early morning ORP reading?

BTW, 2 gallons is pretty good while maintaining 4ppm. I get Full sun all day so that doesn’t help me any.

 

[H-12 1/2 Mike]

We do not have an ORP based dispensing system. I employ a scheduled acid and chlorine additions using my iAqualink to drive my Stenner pumps. I manually check my ORP using a calibrated Apera ORP60 tester daily at 9 am and my clorine and other chems using the Exact iDip. Whereas your OmniLogic dispenses as needed throughout the day and night. That is why I was questioning my timing of additions.

 

[joboo7777]

Oh that’s right. Now I remember! Lol. We’ve had this conversation before. My apologies! I’m getting old!

I can tell You that my system typically starts dispensing around 11am which is when it hits the set point (-25mV). It continues all day every 5 mins for 10-20 secs at a clip until about 6 or 7. You might want to try a start of 10-11am then every few hours until around 7pm.

At first I didn’t like Hayward’s dispense algorithm, but it’s starting to grow on me. I’m finding my free chlorine is fairly consistent.

 

[H-12 1/2 Mike]

Thanks. I will give it try. I planned to do full automation this past spring but ended up doing a complete replaster because of the February cold event. The cost of that was over 4X the cost of automation. The wife (boss) said no way to the automation.

 

[joboo7777]

Update:
Below are the latest chlorine consumption rates. The one item I forget to add in the Jun24-Jul15 update was that I added 8oz(1 puck) of Trichlor to help maintain CYA. I revised that line to incorporate that addition plus I also added 16oz(2 pucks) of Trichlor over the past few weeks. Even so it looks like my totals have decreased some. I suspect its do to the additional CYA that I've added. I'm thinking my test results for CYA may actually been lower than the readings. Which when your testing at such low levels can certainly be an issue. it wasn't until I went to Leslie's to test using the Lamotte Spintouch that I realized my CYA may actually be around 10ppm vs 15-20ppm from my Exact iDip.

Jan 18th-March 26th - 5 gallons @ 1/2 gallon per week
March 27th - April 12th - 2 gallons @ 3/4 gallon per week
April 13th - May 3rd - 5 gallons @ 1 1/2 gallons per week
May 3rd - June 3rd - 8 gallons @ 1.8 gallons per week
June 3rd - June 23 - 8 gallons @ 2.8 gallons per week
June 24 - July 15 - 13 gallons & 8oz of Trichlor@ 4.1 gallons per week
July 15 - Aug 3rd - 9 gallons & 16oz of Trichlor @ 3.15 gallons per week

I've noticed my FC creeping down just a bit even though my ORP is remaining constant (~715mV). My FC is now around 1.75ppm - 2.5ppm down from 2ppm-3ppm. The only thing I can correlate this with is the addition Orenda Phosphate remover on July 11th and use of some tricolor. I checked my ORP probe for accuracy and its still within ~10mV. My CC is always 0 to .1 which is certainly acceptable.

I do have a minor issue that I'm working through, a few months back the 15amp GFCI receptacle my Chlorine dispenser is connected to tripped. I reset it and has been fine until a few weeks back when it tripped again. I have called my PB who installed the system and they are coming out next week to troubleshoot. More to come on that.

Overall I've been very happy with the performance of the system. It does have its challenges just like any automation solution. But definitely more pro's than con's at this point.

That's its for now. Please feel free to hit me up if you have any questions.

 

[LeviStraussTx]

I've read that the CYA can skew the ORP readings, so if the Trichlor increased the CYA, that could have caused the FC to now be lower with the same ORP readings. It'll be interesting to see if the ORP to FC ratio stays consistent with the CYA staying consistent. Since CYA doesn't really disappear, that would tell you that the CYA caused the change in how much FC is associated with the ORP readings. If the relationship of ORP value to FC starts to drift back to where you were before the phosphate remover, then it would seem to point to that.

 

[joboo7777]

I've read that the CYA can skew the ORP readings, so if the Trichlor increased the CYA, that could have caused the FC to now be lower with the same ORP readings. It'll be interesting to see if the ORP to FC ratio stays consistent with the CYA staying consistent. Since CYA doesn't really disappear, that would tell you that the CYA caused the change in how much FC is associated with the ORP readings. If the relationship of ORP value to FC starts to drift back to where you were before the phosphate remover, then it would seem to point to that.

CYA above 30ppm can typicallydecrease ORP. It this case ORP is not decreasing but the level of FC needed to reach my set point of 715mV is less. So actually my ORP levels increased.

I’m going to keep an eye on it to see if it changes.

 

[H-12 1/2 Mike]

Has your ORP reading decreased since adding the CYA?

 

[H-12 1/2 Mike]

Whoops! Should have read the above post.

 

[LeviStraussTx]

I started researching this setup to see if I could implement it on my pool. I have a ProLogic rather than an OmniLogic. While the ProLogic will work with the sense and dispense, it will only work with a SWG and not Liquid Chlorine. The pH side will work with either an acid tank and pump or with CO2 on a solenoid. I think I'm going to just start with the chlorine tank and pump and run it off of a ZWave outlet and see how well I can keep the levels steady from there. If I end up using a controller, it'll have to be a standalone setup that doesn't tie into the ProLogic.

 

[joboo7777]

I started researching this setup to see if I could implement it on my pool. I have a ProLogic rather than an OmniLogic. While the ProLogic will work with the sense and dispense, it will only work with a SWG and not Liquid Chlorine. The pH side will work with either an acid tank and pump or with CO2 on a solenoid. I think I'm going to just start with the chlorine tank and pump and run it off of a ZWave outlet and see how well I can keep the levels steady from there. If I end up using a controller, it'll have to be a standalone setup that doesn't tie into the ProLogic.

Hmm. That’s interesting. If you have room to install another relay you could add the chlorine dispenser as an accessory and create a schedule within the prologic to activate it.

 

[H-12 1/2 Mike]

I installed two stenner tank/pump systems for my chlorine and acid dispensing. Each has its own relay and is timed controlled by my iAqualink. I run the acid pump on a scheduled 1 hour per day (8 oz) at a 50:50 tank mix with water. The chlorine pump runs for a total of 2 hours per day (for a total of 32oz) 10 mins per hour over a 12 hour period. My chlorine stays at 4.5 ppm and the acid is stable at 7.6 ph. No adjustments are needed except for extreme rainfall. I run my pool pump 1500 rpm for 24/7.

 

[LeviStraussTx]

Hmm. That’s interesting. If you have room to install another relay you could add the chlorine dispenser as an accessory and create a schedule within the prologic to activate it.

I asked Hayward about that as well. I do have an extra relay available (Aux 2), but my ProLogic only lets me set one schedule for the Aux relays. So, one on time and one off time, the same each day. That sort of defeats the point of the sense and dispense being able to adjust output to retain proper chem levels. I can get better scheduling off of a Z-Wave outlet So that it only runs for a couple minutes, then off, then on, and so forth. That way I get a better dispersion over the course of the day.