Have Ozonator - Some Challenges, Switch to Bromine?

[Triumph65]

I have a new spa with ozonator. I read in one of the posts from @JoyfulNoise that an ozonator will destroy the chlorine and it may be better to use bromine.
I have the Taylor K-2006C and would have to get the R-001 & R-002 to be able to test for bromine.
For the first month or so I have been running the tub using the dichlor/chlorine method. Initially started with dichlor until the CYA got to 30 and then started with 10% bleach. Have been adding bleach after each soak (enough to bring FC to 6ppm) and adding some on non use days as well. Still open up every now and then to a green tint in water and have developed some hot tub rash.
Other levels are:
CYA 30
Ch 150
PH 7.4
TA 50
I do notice that every time I open the hot tub between days my FC is zero. I have read some of that is normal but wonder if my ozonator is also destroying the chlorine as Joyfulnoise suggested.
One of the drawbacks of switching to bromine is that I run my pool on liquid chlorine so (so always have some) and always have some at hand. I also noticed there is not a bromine section in my TFP pool math app.
I did read the section on bromine and it appears that you add sodium bromine in the beginning to reach a certain level and then rely on chlorine adds and ozonator to activate the bromine.
Just looking for guidance as what I have been doing doesn’t appear to be working.
Sorry for long post.
Thanks for any help!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Your problem is that you are too infrequently dosing the water and the tub goes for too long at zero FC allowing bacteria to grow (which is probably the source of the rash). Your plumbing probably contaminated with bacteria and biofilms.

I suggest you do an Ahhsome purge of the tub, add chlorine to the end of the purge process to really kill off anything and make sure you soak the filters in with the purge water. Then dump the entire tub, clean it all down and refill. You may need to drain and refill the tub twice of the Ahhsome purge releases a lot of gunk.

Once the tub is full, you need to get the FC up and maintain it more consistently. Yes, ozone can destroy FC, but hot tub ozone generators are generally pretty weak on the output of O3 and so you can still maintain the FC more consistently. There are sometimes ways to de-energize the ozonator at the control board but it depends on the specific tub manufacturer and controller they use.

 

[Bperry]

I have a new spa with ozonator. I read in one of the posts from @JoyfulNoise that an ozonator will destroy the chlorine and it may be better to use bromine.
I have the Taylor K-2006C and would have to get the R-001 & R-002 to be able to test for bromine.
For the first month or so I have been running the tub using the dichlor/chlorine method. Initially started with dichlor until the CYA got to 30 and then started with 10% bleach. Have been adding bleach after each soak (enough to bring FC to 6ppm) and adding some on non use days as well. Still open up every now and then to a green tint in water and have developed some hot tub rash.
Other levels are:
CYA 30
Ch 150
PH 7.4
TA 50
I do notice that every time I open the hot tub between days my FC is zero. I have read some of that is normal but wonder if my ozonator is also destroying the chlorine as Joyfulnoise suggested.
One of the drawbacks of switching to bromine is that I run my pool on liquid chlorine so (so always have some) and always have some at hand. I also noticed there is not a bromine section in my TFP pool math app.
I did read the section on bromine and it appears that you add sodium bromine in the beginning to reach a certain level and then rely on chlorine adds and ozonator to activate the bromine.
Just looking for guidance as what I have been doing doesn’t appear to be working.
Sorry for long post.
Thanks for any help!

The solution more likely to disable the ozone device rather than switching to bromine.

 

[VinnyinNJ]

First, when you got the tub did you do an Ahhsome purge? If not, get some and do it. Second, The correct dosing is to have chlorine of at least 3 PPM 20 minutes after you add chlorine; you say you add 6 PPM - what is it at 20 minutes. Third, after the purge, dump the water and start with fresh water! Newbies tend to have issues wth their first or second fill. And fourth, unless hot tub ozonators have changed drastically they are almost never effective against anything in the tub.

You are using the chlorine correctly with 30 PPM CYA then bleach but as @JoyfulNoise said you need to put chlorine in the more frequently and how much depends as to how many people are using the tub. A party may require adding a lot of chlorine every hour, a single soaker maybe 1-3 oz and you may need to add chlorine every day or other day to keep chlorine up. I used chlorine exclusively with my tub and never had an issue, I used a different dosing method than what is recommended here and still didn't have issues. I had a very week ozonator (UV bulb) that I unplugged about a year into ownership and never looked back.

Just as a FYI, chlorine is much stronger of a disinfectant than bromine, I think it is just under ozone. People have complained about the bromine smell, like our pools you shouldn't smell chlorine.

Chlorine is very easy to use. Do not use anything else in the tub to make it "special". You just use the BBB method, get you rhythum of what to do down pat and you'll be good to go.

 

[Triumph65]

Your problem is that you are too infrequently dosing the water and the tub goes for too long at zero FC allowing bacteria to grow (which is probably the source of the rash). Your plumbing probably contaminated with bacteria and biofilms.

I suggest you do an Ahhsome purge of the tub, add chlorine to the end of the purge process to really kill off anything and make sure you soak the filters in with the purge water. Then dump the entire tub, clean it all down and refill. You may need to drain and refill the tub twice of the Ahhsome purge releases a lot of gunk.

Once the tub is full, you need to get the FC up and maintain it more consistently. Yes, ozone can destroy FC, but hot tub ozone generators are generally pretty weak on the output of O3 and so you can still maintain the FC more consistently. There are sometimes ways to de-energize the ozonator at the control board but it depends on the specific tub manufacturer and controller they use.

@JoyfulNoise - Thank you for your help!! I will do as instructed. Will do a double Ahhsome and empty each time.
I have been adding 3oz. of 10% chlorine after each soak, may have missed too many of the non use days, as you suggested.
A couple follow up questions if o.k.

- How much chlorine should I add on second ahhsome purge?
- Should I add enough chlorine to get to 3ppm every day (minus soak days).

Thanks you!

 

[Triumph65]

The solution more likely to disable the ozone device rather than switching to bromine.

@Bperry - Thank you!!

 

[Triumph65]

First, when you got the tub did you do an Ahhsome purge? If not, get some and do it. Second, The correct dosing is to have chlorine of at least 3 PPM 20 minutes after you add chlorine; you say you add 6 PPM - what is it at 20 minutes. Third, after the purge, dump the water and start with fresh water! Newbies tend to have issues wth their first or second fill. And fourth, unless hot tub ozonators have changed drastically they are almost never effective against anything in the tub.

You are using the chlorine correctly with 30 PPM CYA then bleach but as @JoyfulNoise said you need to put chlorine in the more frequently and how much depends as to how many people are using the tub. A party may require adding a lot of chlorine every hour, a single soaker maybe 1-3 oz and you may need to add chlorine every day or other day to keep chlorine up. I used chlorine exclusively with my tub and never had an issue, I used a different dosing method than what is recommended here and still didn't have issues. I had a very week ozonator (UV bulb) that I unplugged about a year into ownership and never looked back.

Just as a FYI, chlorine is much stronger of a disinfectant than bromine, I think it is just under ozone. People have complained about the bromine smell, like our pools you shouldn't smell chlorine.

Chlorine is very easy to use. Do not use anything else in the tub to make it "special". You just use the BBB method, get you rhythum of what to do down pat and you'll be good to go.

@VinnyinNJ - I did do a double ahhsome purge at first. I will do the 20 minute test and add more frequently.
Thank you!

 

[Triumph65]

@VinnyinNJ - “BBB Method” ?

 

[VinnyinNJ]

@VinnyinNJ - “BBB Method” ?

Bleach
Borax
Baking soda

The original foundation of what TFP was founded on. My pool water acts differently than my tub water... I never have to add borax to my tub to raise the pH, baking soda always raised it.

Also as a side note, once you get the correct dosing down make it easy on yourself and pour the bleach into a holding vessel (I use a prescription vial). I measured the correct amount with a measuring cup filled with water, drew a line and then filled it to that line with bleach.

 

[VinnyinNJ]

@JoyfulNoise - Thank you for your help!! I will do as instructed. Will do a double Ahhsome and empty each time.
I have been adding 3oz. of 10% chlorine after each soak, may have missed too many of the non use days, as you suggested.
A couple follow up questions if o.k.

- How much chlorine should I add on second ahhsome purge?
- Should I add enough chlorine to get to 3ppm every day (minus soak days).

Thanks you!

I used to add a lot of bleach during the purge, probably 50 PPM or more. My thoughts were the Ahhsome was taking that stuff off and the chlorine was killing whatever it could.

 

[Newdude]

I used to add a lot of bleach during the purge, probably 50 PPM or more.

(Jokes aside, SLAM level is plenty)

 

[VinnyinNJ]

View attachment 551964

(Jokes aside, SLAM level is plenty)

It was before SLAM and I had like 1,000,000 CYA level!!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I don’t think doing double purge or adding more Ahhsome than is recommended is necessary … more ≠ better.

Just do the Ahhsome purge and once you have run it for the recommended time, add some chlorine (10-20ppm is more than enough) and let it circulate for an additional 30min. Then drain and rinse it all out.

@Ahhsomeguy can speak to the particulars of doing a purge with added chlorine to help kill off anything in the pipes. It’s his companies product and he knows all the tricks for getting squeaky clean plumbing.

 

[Triumph65]

@JoyfulNoise - Sorry, I meant do an ahhsome purge, drain, wipe down and then refill and do another awesome purge with chlorine (SLAM) level. Then I will refill the third time and balance.

But I like your idea of doing once and adding chlorine.

I was thinking about this last night and I really didn’t miss but a couple days of adding chlorine since I got this hot tub. I have been adding chlorine after every soak and every non use day (minus 2-3) but it seems like every time I open that lid my chlorine is zero. That’s what led me down the path of thinking my ozonator was destroying all my chlorine.

One thing I was not doing was slamming weekly, so that might be a part of the problem as well.

I will do the ahhsome purge, daily ads, and SLAM once weekly and see if that does the trick.

Can’t thank you all enough for your input and advice.

 

[Mdragger88]

@Triumph65
Anywhere between target & Slam level fc
FC/CYA Levels
is fine when purging.
The idea is that you are stick your hands in the funk so you want some sanitizer in there.
As for your daily dosing: you have to give the tub what it needs when it needs it & account for standby fc loss ensuring your fc never falls below minimum for your cya or nasties will proliferate .
However much chlorine that is.
Your testing before & after use & every day for a while must be your guide there - its not one size fits all. Each bather load is different (1 person/4 people). If you won’t be back for 2 days, it will also be different. May mean raising to 6ppm or maybe even 10ppm to get you through.
You must sure your bets with sufficient fc to carry you through to the next use/dose.

 

[phonedave]

@JoyfulNoise - Sorry, I meant do an ahhsome purge, drain, wipe down and then refill and do another awesome purge with chlorine (SLAM) level. Then I will refill the third time and balance.

But I like your idea of doing once and adding chlorine.

I was thinking about this last night and I really didn’t miss but a couple days of adding chlorine since I got this hot tub. I have been adding chlorine after every soak and every non use day (minus 2-3) but it seems like every time I open that lid my chlorine is zero. That’s what led me down the path of thinking my ozonator was destroying all my chlorine.

One thing I was not doing was slamming weekly, so that might be a part of the problem as well.

I will do the ahhsome purge, daily ads, and SLAM once weekly and see if that does the trick.

Can’t thank you all enough for your input and advice.

What kind of tub do you have, and do you have a circulation pump?

That can make a big difference. Tubs usually are set up not to run ozone when people are in the tub, they run it only when they are in their circulation/filter mode.

A tub without a circulation pump will only enter filter mode for a few hours a day. A tub with a circulation pump will be in filter mode whenever you are not in it.

There is a big difference in O3 production and concomitant Cl degradation between the two