Getting Started, Advice on Testing & Managing Pool appreciated (Mandeville, LA)

[GoIrish02]

Good Morning,

I am excited to join the TFP community as a new pool owner and I look forward to learning from the community. I am a little lost since the builder stopped providing their weekly cleaning (which was inconsistent) so that's why I sought out TFP.

I have a few questions on testing and how some of my equipment affects the pool chemistry. I am confused but I am sure I can get the pool on track with your help. (I am in Mandeville, LA, we plan to keep the pool open year-round and the pool & house are newly built.)

• Free Chlorine reading - Why do I get FC readings between 0 - 1 ppm when I do the FC chlorine drop test but the comparison block test shows ~5 ppm? (photos attached).
• I have a Nature Squared Fusion Tablet Feeder & Mineral Sanitizer. I haven't reloaded the tablet feeder since the builder stopped the included months of support and the Nature Fusion website mentions the mineral cartridge minimizes unfilterable bacteria and I should target a 0 - 1 ppm chlorine level. How does this component affect the TFP target levels? If anyone has this machine, let me know your experience.
• CYA level - Why does my CYA go up when I haven't added any stabilizer? I presume the residual trichlor tablets in the Fusion pump may have added some CYA to the pool. The big increase in CYA seems like a lot, am I reading my test results incorrectly? I am not sure whether to drain & refill or re-test for accuracy. My PoolMath readings are linked.
• Calcium hardness - This level seems way too low and this test is the least useful / most difficult to interpret. The app's advice is to add hundreds of pounds of stuff to fix this issue, I don't want to create an issue with cracking
• pH - I don't see much difference from week to week in this reading with the comparison block test, I don't want this level to get out of hand.

We have had a lot of rain lately too, so that may affect these numbers too. I have been adding 10.5% liquid chlorine on hand to make adjustments according to the PoolMath app, but I have been assuming about a 5 - 6 ppm target based on the comparison block test (instead of the 0 - 1 ppm I get from the drop test). I am noticing some more debris & cloudiness when I brush & vacuum and want to keep the pool usable. I don't understand how the app's target levels keep changing so much every time I enter data. Any advice on how to manage these items and next steps to take are appreciated. Thanks!

 

[PoolStored]

Welcome to TFP!!!

First, I would read through both these links, especially the second one.
Link--> Pool Care Basics
Link--> FC/CYA Levels

• Free Chlorine reading - Why do I get FC readings between 0 - 1 ppm when I do the FC chlorine drop test but the comparison block test shows ~5 ppm? (photos attached).

I'm not sure, but trust the drop test. USE 10mL of pool water, overfilled scoop of powder, each drop is .5FC <---TRUST THIS FOR YOUR MEASUREMENT

• I have a Nature Squared Fusion Tablet Feeder & Mineral Sanitizer. I haven't reloaded the tablet feeder since the builder stopped the included months of support and the Nature Fusion website mentions the mineral cartridge minimizes unfilterable bacteria and I should target a 0 - 1 ppm chlorine level. How does this component affect the TFP target levels? If anyone has this machine, let me know your experience.

Mineral cartridges add metal to the water which build up and stain hair, fingernails, water, plaster, vinyl and dog.s lots of people here spend a lot of time and money trying to remove metal and stains from their water. Here is how to remove the mineral cartridge.

Nature2 Fusion - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

• CYA level - Why does my CYA go up when I haven't added any stabilizer? I presume the residual trichlor tablets in the Fusion pump may have added some CYA to the pool. The big increase in CYA seems like a lot, am I reading my test results incorrectly? I am not sure whether to drain & refill or re-test for accuracy. My PoolMath readings are linked.

Using pucks raises CYA. Your CYA is 90. That is very high. It is possible you are doing the test wrong (I'll link instructions, very important to do outdoors with sun at your back). Re-test with these instructions. You can even pour it back and forth from bottle to test tube. If it is 90, you want to drain about 40% of your pool to get to ~50 CYA, but I would EXCHANGE water. Exchange is explained in the Draining article.

CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

Cyanuric Acid (CYA) is the chemical name for what is commonly referred to as Stabilizer … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

• Calcium hardness - This level seems way too low and this test is the least useful / most difficult to interpret. The app's advice is to add hundreds of pounds of stuff to fix this issue, I don't want to create an issue with cracking

You want the calcium in the pool. You can add in increments. Not having it in a plaster pool will cause issues. You want 99% Calcium Chloride. This is the one chemical I buy at the pool store.

• pH - I don't see much difference from week to week in this reading with the comparison block test, I don't want this level to get out of hand.

Great! Then that means your pH is stable. That is a good thing!

The dust/debris is likely algae. After you read the FC/CYA chart you will see that with CYA 90, you don't ever want to get below FC 7. I would keep it 10-12. It is likely that you have algae given the high CYA and low FC.

Your best order of operations is to:
1) add enough liquid chlorine to get to 10 FC, pump running.
2) re-test your CYA to confirm it is 90.
3) I would do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test, this will tell us if you have an algae problem. Link -->Overnight Chlorine Loss Test
4) Keep adding chlorine, even a couple times a day to keep FC above 7.
5) Do the water exchange if your CYA is in fact 90.
6) If you don't pass the OCLT, we will do this process with you to get rid of the algae. Link-->SLAM Process
7) After that we can sort out the CH.

Pictures of the pool will help us...

 

[mgtfp]

Welcome to TFP!

The test in the colour comparator is the OTO test, which tests for total chlorine (TC).

With the drop test,you test in step 1 for free chlorine (FC), and then in step 2 for combined chlorine (CC).

Total chlorine is the sum of free and combined chlorine:

TC = FC + CC

In your last PoolMath log, you have FC 1ppm and CC 3ppm, which gives you a TC of 4ppm. This is in agreement with an OTO test result of 5ppm. The OTO is not that precise, but it is very reliable in telling you if there is chlorine or not, but you won't know how much of that is actually FC.

Which leads us to the next point: You need to get rid of the 3ppm CC.

Maintaining FC according to FC/CYA Levels ensures that there is always enough FC available to complete the oxidation of CCs, and TFP pools usually don't show significant levels of CC.

Always aim for the higher end of the target range, and make sure to never drop below the min level. Better to always stay above the lower end of the target range - if that requires to aim higher with your chlorine additions to ensure you still have enough FC by the next time you add chlorine, than this is absolutely fine. Anything up to SLAM FC is OK to swim in.

If you fail the OCLT, you'll have to slam anyway, which will also get rid of the CC. If you pass the OCLT showing you have no algae, you should make sure to maintain high enough FC until the CC is gone.

Your CYA readings in your logs are still a bit all over the place. E.g. the increase from 60 to 90ppm between November 11 and 13 is impossible without actually adding stabiliser. The increase by Trichlor is not that fast (but steady if used continuously). The one logged Trichlor addition is enough to raise FC by 3ppm and CYA by 1.8ppm, and it usually takes about a week for a puck to fully dissolve.

I suggest to practise the CYA test a bit. It might be helpful to order the CYA standard solution from Tftestkits. Testing a solution with a known CYA level might help you to work out how to read the CYA test properly.

It helped me a great deal to order a big 16oz bottle of R-0013, so I don't have to fear to run out of reagent when getting used to the CYA test. This stuff lasts a long time when stored in a cool, dark place like a cupboard inside the house.

Have a good read through all the articles that PoolStored quoted, that should get you going.

And remember, that PoolMath is just a calculator. Have a good read through Pool School and understand why you are targeting certain levels.

Regarding CH: Turn CSI tracking on in PoolMath. The CSI tells you the calcium carbonate saturation of the water, and is mainly influenced by CH, TA, pH, salt and temperature. CYA has an indirect influence for correction purposes. At CSI 0, the water is balanced, above 0.3 scaling becomes possible and above 0.6 likely. Below -0.3 plaster etching becomes possibly and below -0.6 likely. But especially the etching is a long term process, you need to be below -0.6 for a long time for damage to occur. In short, you want CSI to be between -0.3 and +0.3.

You also need to consider how CH will develop over time. If that CH result is representative of shortly after the fill, then your fill water will have a similar CH. Best to test your fill water to confirm this. A fill water CH of 125 to 150 is not terrible, but also not super low. You have to keep in mind that each time you replace evaporation losses with fill water, you add more calcium, which doesn't evaporate with water, so it accumulates. So, don't just blindly add all the Hardness Increaser that PoolMath tells you, but keep long-term developments in mind. Also keep in mind that CSI will be higher in summer with higher water temperatures. Play around with PoolMath to get a feeling for it. You don't want having to drain after a few weeks of summer because you didn't consider higher temperatures and fill water additions.

Having CSI a bit too low over the shortish winter period is not a problem. The lower temperature can be compensated to a certain degree by maintaining higher pH over winter, close to pH 8.

I'd bring CH up to maybe 250 for now, and then take some time to understand how your pool behaves, and how fast CH accumulates in your case. And in which pH range your pool is happy.

 

[GoIrish02]

Welcome to TFP!!!

First, I would read through both these links, especially the second one.
Link--> Pool Care Basics
Link--> FC/CYA Levels


I'm not sure, but trust the drop test. USE 10mL of pool water, overfilled scoop of powder, each drop is .5FC <---TRUST THIS FOR YOUR MEASUREMENT

Mineral cartridges add metal to the water which build up and stain hair, fingernails, water, plaster, vinyl and dog.s lots of people here spend a lot of time and money trying to remove metal and stains from their water. Here is how to remove the mineral cartridge.

Nature2 Fusion - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Using pucks raises CYA. Your CYA is 90. That is very high. It is possible you are doing the test wrong (I'll link instructions, very important to do outdoors with sun at your back). Re-test with these instructions. You can even pour it back and forth from bottle to test tube. If it is 90, you want to drain about 40% of your pool to get to ~50 CYA, but I would EXCHANGE water. Exchange is explained in the Draining article.

CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

Cyanuric Acid (CYA) is the chemical name for what is commonly referred to as Stabilizer … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

You want the calcium in the pool. You can add in increments. Not having it in a plaster pool will cause issues. You want 99% Calcium Chloride. This is the one chemical I buy at the pool store.

Great! Then that means your pH is stable. That is a good thing!

The dust/debris is likely algae. After you read the FC/CYA chart you will see that with CYA 90, you don't ever want to get below FC 7. I would keep it 10-12. It is likely that you have algae given the high CYA and low FC.

Your best order of operations is to:
1) add enough liquid chlorine to get to 10 FC, pump running.
2) re-test your CYA to confirm it is 90.
3) I would do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test, this will tell us if you have an algae problem. Link -->Overnight Chlorine Loss Test
4) Keep adding chlorine, even a couple times a day to keep FC above 7.
5) Do the water exchange if your CYA is in fact 90.
6) If you don't pass the OCLT, we will do this process with you to get rid of the algae. Link-->SLAM Process
7) After that we can sort out the CH.

Pictures of the pool will help us...

Thanks for this detailed response. I'm beginning the SLAM process today, after adding 2.5 gallons yesterday targeting a FC of 10 (and only getting to 4). I also lost about 2 ppm overnight from yesterday's afternoon addition so I'm dumping in 7.5 gallons now and getting more for tomorrow.

Any danger to not lowering pH before I begin?

Thanks again!

Welcome to TFP!!!

First, I would read through both these links, especially the second one.
Link--> Pool Care Basics
Link--> FC/CYA Levels


I'm not sure, but trust the drop test. USE 10mL of pool water, overfilled scoop of powder, each drop is .5FC <---TRUST THIS FOR YOUR MEASUREMENT

Mineral cartridges add metal to the water which build up and stain hair, fingernails, water, plaster, vinyl and dog.s lots of people here spend a lot of time and money trying to remove metal and stains from their water. Here is how to remove the mineral cartridge.

Nature2 Fusion - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Using pucks raises CYA. Your CYA is 90. That is very high. It is possible you are doing the test wrong (I'll link instructions, very important to do outdoors with sun at your back). Re-test with these instructions. You can even pour it back and forth from bottle to test tube. If it is 90, you want to drain about 40% of your pool to get to ~50 CYA, but I would EXCHANGE water. Exchange is explained in the Draining article.

CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

Cyanuric Acid (CYA) is the chemical name for what is commonly referred to as Stabilizer … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

You want the calcium in the pool. You can add in increments. Not having it in a plaster pool will cause issues. You want 99% Calcium Chloride. This is the one chemical I buy at the pool store.

Great! Then that means your pH is stable. That is a good thing!

The dust/debris is likely algae. After you read the FC/CYA chart you will see that with CYA 90, you don't ever want to get below FC 7. I would keep it 10-12. It is likely that you have algae given the high CYA and low FC.

Your best order of operations is to:
1) add enough liquid chlorine to get to 10 FC, pump running.
2) re-test your CYA to confirm it is 90.
3) I would do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test, this will tell us if you have an algae problem. Link -->Overnight Chlorine Loss Test
4) Keep adding chlorine, even a couple times a day to keep FC above 7.
5) Do the water exchange if your CYA is in fact 90.
6) If you don't pass the OCLT, we will do this process with you to get rid of the algae. Link-->SLAM Process
7) After that we can sort out the CH.

Pictures of the pool will help us...

 

[GoIrish02]

Welcome to TFP!!!

First, I would read through both these links, especially the second one.
Link--> Pool Care Basics
Link--> FC/CYA Levels


I'm not sure, but trust the drop test. USE 10mL of pool water, overfilled scoop of powder, each drop is .5FC <---TRUST THIS FOR YOUR MEASUREMENT

Mineral cartridges add metal to the water which build up and stain hair, fingernails, water, plaster, vinyl and dog.s lots of people here spend a lot of time and money trying to remove metal and stains from their water. Here is how to remove the mineral cartridge.

Nature2 Fusion - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Using pucks raises CYA. Your CYA is 90. That is very high. It is possible you are doing the test wrong (I'll link instructions, very important to do outdoors with sun at your back). Re-test with these instructions. You can even pour it back and forth from bottle to test tube. If it is 90, you want to drain about 40% of your pool to get to ~50 CYA, but I would EXCHANGE water. Exchange is explained in the Draining article.

CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

Cyanuric Acid (CYA) is the chemical name for what is commonly referred to as Stabilizer … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

You want the calcium in the pool. You can add in increments. Not having it in a plaster pool will cause issues. You want 99% Calcium Chloride. This is the one chemical I buy at the pool store.

Great! Then that means your pH is stable. That is a good thing!

The dust/debris is likely algae. After you read the FC/CYA chart you will see that with CYA 90, you don't ever want to get below FC 7. I would keep it 10-12. It is likely that you have algae given the high CYA and low FC.

Your best order of operations is to:
1) add enough liquid chlorine to get to 10 FC, pump running.
2) re-test your CYA to confirm it is 90.
3) I would do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test, this will tell us if you have an algae problem. Link -->Overnight Chlorine Loss Test
4) Keep adding chlorine, even a couple times a day to keep FC above 7.
5) Do the water exchange if your CYA is in fact 90.
6) If you don't pass the OCLT, we will do this process with you to get rid of the algae. Link-->SLAM Process
7) After that we can sort out the CH.

Pictures of the pool will help us...

Update:

Kicked FC up to 28 last night at 7 pm, holding at 24 at 1 pm today, CC dropping significantly! I'll add another ~1 gallon at lunch and retest at 7 pm. Thanks!

 

[PoolStored]

Update:

Kicked FC up to 28 last night at 7 pm, holding at 24 at 1 pm today, CC dropping significantly! I'll add another ~1 gallon at lunch and retest at 7 pm. Thanks!

You want to keep it at 28. Test and replace to get back to 28 as often as you can. Every 2 hour is great if you can manage it. The point of keeping it at 28 is that is when it is killing stuff.

 

[mgtfp]

Something doesn't look right with your CC logs:



How are you testing for CC?

Have another read through the FAS-DPD Chlorine Test directions to make sure that you are doing the test correctly.

 

[GoIrish02]

I just retested and reread instructions based on your comment. 46 drops to get 23 FC, 5 drops of R-0003 then 18 drops of R-0871 to get clear for a CC of 9.

Am I doing something wrong?

Something doesn't look right with your CC logs:

View attachment 465111

How are you testing for CC?

Have another read through the FAS-DPD Chlorine Test directions to make sure that you are doing the test correctly.

 

[mgtfp]

That sounds right. CC 42 surprised me a bit, that is quite unusual. Have you used non-chlorine shock at some point? This shows up as CC due to a test interference.

While FC and CC are so high, you are going through a lot of reagent. You could use a 5ml water sample (measure e.g. with a syringe), then 1 drop of 0871 is 1ppm FC/CC. Usually that's not recommended, but it's better than having to interrupt a SLAM because you are running out of reagent. You can aim for FC 1-2ppm higher when dosing chlorine to SLAM-FC to allow for the increased testing error.

 

[GoIrish02]

Thanks to all for your comments and advice. I have been busy with work, plus we had some tornados and a lot of rain come through last week that paused the daily monitoring and the pool has been holding steady at 10 since resuming testing. I am going to do an OCLT tonight and a full battery of tests to see where I am, hopefully the rain will have reduced the CYA to a manageable amount so I can focus on other factors you've mentioned like calcium saturation.

I'm following the threads on freeze preparation, we should miss the brunt of the cold in south Louisiana.

Good luck to everyone and Merry Christmas!