Foam and Cloudy Water

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bwright42tx

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Aug 25, 2008
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I've had a lot of trouble getting my pool started this year. Had a pump go out on me, and the pool set for about a month with no care/chemicals/circulating water. I finally got all my pump and plumbing problems worked out and started shocking the pool to get rid of the algae/green swamp. I am 37 Bottles of bleach in now and wondering what I should be doing now as the water seems "stuck" with a foamy mess on top and is not getting any clearer (the green is all gone and now it's just really cloudy water). So the water background:

CYA was at 0 when I started so I started shocking with Di-Chlor shock so I could shock and add CYA at the same time (this was when the water was a green swamp) The green swamp cleared up within 24 hours, but left very cloudy water, and my next CYA test (about 48 hours later) showed over 100 CYA (in retrospect this may have been reading undissolved/undiluted CYA from the di-chlor shock or the cloudy water could have thrown the test off, but the water in the bottle didn't look that cloudy to me). SO I did a partial drain and refill and waited 24 hours and checked the water again.

My CYA was now 0!!! Complete test results were: FC 0 CC 0 TC 0 PH 8.4 t/a 260, CH 100, CYA 0. I added muratic acid to lower the PH (my Spa Spillover causes my PH to rise consistently when running the pump 24/7) to 7.2 and waited about an hour then I added my last two bags of di-chlor shock and went to get some bleach. When I got back from Wal-mart with 12 bottles of bleach I did a full water test: FC 1.0 CC 1.0 TC 2.0 PH 7.5 T/A 240 CH 100 CYA 25. So I checked the CYA/Chlorine chart and found CYA 30 to have a 12 ppm FC Shock level and that's what I used. I have now be shocking for 48 Hours with chlorine bleach and have hit a stand still. I was just testing the FC levels and maintaining since two mornings ago. As I wasn't seeing any improvement I raised my target FC levels to 20 and kept shocking. Last night I got lazy because we got home late and I just added 6 bottles of bleach to the pool for the night without checking the FC level 1st.

This morning there is still a thin layer of foam covering the entire surface of the pool and the water is still very cloudy. So I did a full set of test results and here is what I got:

FC 43, CC 1.5, TC 44.5, PH 8.4, T/A 240, CH 110, CYA 0. I got the CYA of 0 by running the test twice, once with just straight cloudy pool water and then again with the reagents and both times read about 25 so I am guessing my CYA was always 0.

WIth 0 CYA I'm not sure how long that 43 FC will last once the sun hits the pool, but I have a few more bottles of bleach on hand. So what do I do at this point? Let the chlorine drop back down to FC 12 and keep shocking? The water clarity has not changed in 24 hours and teh foam is going nowhere. DO I need to get some CYA in there? My concern is that if I have that bacteria that eats the CYA I will just be feeding it by adding CYA into the mix?

Thanks for any help you guys can give me.
 
I'm a little worried about the possibility that your CYA test might be wrong. Which test are you using to measure the CYA level? A good way to double check the CYA level will be to watch how the FC level falls today. If CYA is really zero then you will lose all of your chlorine by evening, while if CYA is above zero you should still have a non-zero FC level this evening.

You are clearly making some progress against the algae. If CYA is really zero and FC is really 43 you have killed everything in the water for sure. If CYA is actually higher then there might be something still alive in the water, but it must be on it's way out.

Foaming isn't really a problem right now. The dead algae will release a little organic oil which can occasionally cause foaming. The chlorine will take care of it eventually, it just takes a while for the chlorine to break down the oils.

The next step is to check into the filter. Has the filter pressure been going up? Have you been cleaning the cartridge?
 
Thanks for the response. Filter pressure has gone up, but not by more than 3 psi since I began shocking. Once I got all my pump/plumbing problems worked out I completely cleaned all of the filter cartridges, so I started with a nice clean set. My filter gauge has a little green and red arrow on it that I can set by turning the dial, so I usually turn the dial so the green arrow is pointing at the pressure reading immediately after cleaning everything, then I watch it weekly and if it starts getting close to the red arrow (which is about 10 psi above the green arrow) then I know I need to clean my filter. As it is I've never gotten to that point in the three years I've had the pool. I clean them once when I open the pool in the late spring, then I clean them again about July usually and then once again when I decide we're done swimming for the year. Doing that I've never reached the red line yet.

Having said all of that I suppose I could just clean them anyways. Takes me an hour or two to clean them all really good, and might help things along in the clean pool department.
 
Oh and on the CYA test I'm using the one that came in the TF-100 test kit, where the black dot disappears. I also have some test strips I just double checked with them, the Chlorine is reading off the Chart, the TA is off the chart too, the CH is about where I'd expect (low) and the CYA looks like zero or really close to it. I guess I could always take a water sample into the dreaded pool store.
 
If you are getting a strong flow from the returns then there isn't any need to clean the filter. The worry is that the filter could be torn and not filtering correctly. If the pressure has been going up then it isn't torn and things are just taking a while.

Lets see how the FC level behaves today before worrying about the CYA test.

The problem might be that your PH is going up too quickly. The next time FC is below 10 test and adjust the PH back to 7.2.
 
Couple of updates. Most of the foam is gone. Water is still very cloudy. Did an FC and CC and CYA test. FC is down to 12, CC is at 2, making TC 14. CYA is definitely < 10 (The CYA test water in the tube obscured the dot slightly more than the pure pool water, but the dot was still visible at the 20 line with both). So at this point do I raise to shock levels again? Or let teh FC drop below 10 and test TA and PH and adjust that down then bring back up to shock levels tonight?

I could get some more Di-Chlor shock to raise the CYA at the same time, but I am still concerned that this may be an ammonia problem caused by that bug that eats CYA and if the bug isn't all gone I'd just be feeding it so it could create more ammonia. Also, With the foam mostly gone I am scared to ad anything but pure bleach as I don't want to cause foam again.

Thanks.
 
bwright42tx said:
I could get some more Di-Chlor shock to raise the CYA at the same time, but I am still concerned that this may be an ammonia problem caused by that bug that eats CYA and if the bug isn't all gone I'd just be feeding it so it could create more ammonia. Also, With the foam mostly gone I am scared to ad anything but pure bleach as I don't want to cause foam again.
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If you're measuring FC (which it sounds like you are), then any bacteria are dead. You're past the worst stage which is trying to catch up getting rid of the ammonia (if that is what happened) and are now just dealing with either partially oxidized CYA or more likely dead algae (possibly bacteria, if there was a lot). You can at least put some CYA in the water so that the FC will not get broken down so quickly during the day. Even 30 ppm CYA would be better than no CYA. When I had this happen to me, I still had around 20 ppm CYA in the water while I was using chlorinating liquid to clear things up.
 
Ok, so at this point my plan is to:

Test again this evening and add muratic acid to lower the ph to 7.2.

Then wait an hour for that to circulate, and add enough bleach to get FC levels to 16.

Then wait a couple hours and test again and add more bleach if needed, but primarily to establish a FC base to compare to in the morning.

Test early in the morning before the sun hits the pool and ad more bleach if needed then run. To the pool store for some di-chlor shock for my next dose.

I'll take in a water sample too and see what their numbers show as well.

Any suggestions for doing anything differently.
 
Chlorine dropped to 8, so I checked, ph was 7.8, ta was 300, so I added 128oz of muratic acid to drop PH to 7.0. Pool calc said this would only lower the TA by 30, so I turned on the waterfall to speed up the aeration, will raise the FC back to shock levels in an hour or two. The foam disappearing has me feeling better about being on the right path, even though the water is still really cloudy.
 
PH is now 7.2, TA at 280 turned the Waterfall off for the night. FC was at 2.0, CC at 1.5, Shocked it back up to 16 FC, will re-test in the morning. With the waterfall running some of the foam returned, but it's still a lot better than it was, but the water is not any clearer.
 

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The FC level stayed above zero all day, so things are looking promising and CYA is obviously not zero. The overnight FC loss test will give us a good check on things that might be growing in the water. Tomorrow you should add some CYA.
 
bwright42tx said:
PH is now 7.2, TA at 280 turned the Waterfall off for the night. FC was at 2.0, CC at 1.5, Shocked it back up to 16 FC, will re-test in the morning. With the waterfall running some of the foam returned, but it's still a lot better than it was, but the water is not any clearer.
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I've had a similar scenario as you this spring - a number of very warm days in early spring turned our pool into the emerald green swamp. I hooked up plumbing, got the circulation going, started shocking, etc. last Saturday. The water first turned light green, then deep cloudy blue, lighter blue, got lots of foam (looked like someone had thrown soap in the pool), foam finally cleared and water gradually getting less and less cloudy and today, 7 days off-and-on brushing, vacuuming, shocking, and testing, we can easily see the floor drain in the 8 feet deep end from 100 feet away. So, be patient; also, if your water is cool like ours (60) it will slow down the chemical processes.
 
I am beginning to wonder if I am doing these tests right (not that I see a way I could be doing them wrong). Last night FC was 2, so Pool calc said to add three jugs (2.9 to be exact) of 182 oz 6% bleach. I only had 2 jugs, so I dumped them both in figuring that would be good enough for the night and went to bed. This morning FC tests at 16.5, CC 1.5 there is still a lot of foam, but still not as bad as before. Pool calc says my two jugs should have raised FC by 9.8. Which means I should only be at 12 max on the FC. . .not 16. . . .I know I didn't spontaneously gain chlorine overnight.

I am planning on shocking today with Di-Chlor to get the CYA up. According to the Pool Calc the 16 oz (1 lb) of Di-Chlor will raise FC by 3.7 and CYA by 3.4. What should I target for a CYA level? I was thinking maybe keep it lower until my problem clears up then add soem more that way the chlorine is more effective. SO maybe target 20 or 30 for now? Does that sound reasonable?

Also on the chlorine test adding a "heaping scoop" if the dpd powder how exact is that? Could adding too much or too little be causing problems in my CL readings?

Thanks.
 
Adding too little of the DPD powder can cause false low readings, especially when the FC level is very high. Using too much powder, within reason, is never a problem.

Yes, target CYA around 30 for now, then raise it further when everything settles down. CYA is at least 10 already, or you would have lost all of your chlorine yesterday.

There are various possible sources of error. You pool might be smaller than you think it is, your bleach might be stronger than it is labeled, and there are a number of ways in which the test results can be wrong. Any of those could account for a 25% error, especially if a couple of them are happening at the same time. Still, that doesn't seem all that likely.
 
Just a quick update:

Last night before bed FC was 14.5, CC 1.5, CYA was 20ish (slightly more than 20). This morning FC was 15, CC 1.0. Going to be gone for about 4 hours, so I added 1 Lb of Di-Chlor shock, which should put the FC 20 18-19, and the CYA to about 25. I will test when I get back. No Overnight Chlorine loss it seems, but the water is still really cloudy and still a litle foam....got to pick up some more muratic acid so I can keep working on the TA too.
 
Update: Went to the pool store today, picked up some more acid and some cal-hypo. Added two bags of cal-hypo and some acid today. Tested a couple of hours later. FC is 20, CC is 0 for the 1st time, CYA is about 25. The foam is completely gone, but the pool is still extremely cloudy. Going to clean the filter cartridge tonight. PH tested between 7.2 and 7.5, but with the high FC I'm not adding any more acid until the FC comes down and I can re-test.

My Ch has been a little low from the start around 100, so I figure the Cal-Hypo will help raise that while I finish dealing with whatever is left in the water. As I see it now my main problems are the low CH and the high TA (was over 300, slowly bringing it down). So I am going to use some Tri-Chlor pucks in the feeder since they will help get my CYA up to the 40-60 range I want it in and will also help keep bringing the TA/PH down. Can someone remind me how much CYA each puck ads so I don't go too high?

Also is there a quicker way to bring the TA down or should I just keep the waterfall running and keep adding acid as the PH rises? I was thinking of establishing a baseline for how much the PH rises each hour or two hours, and then I could add an appropriate amount of Muratic Acid every couple of hours to consistently keep the PH at 7.2, and just test every 4-6 hours so I don't accidentally go too low? It looks like with the TA at almost 300 each gallon of MA will drop the TA by about 30, so It will take 7 gallons to get me under 100 . . . .

Thanks for all the help guys, I will post some before and after pictures once it's finally clear.
 
That sounds like a good plan for lowering TA. One thing to keep in mind is that the amount of acid you need to add will go down just slightly each time. At first you might not notice, but over several rounds it will start to be a noticeable difference.
 
Just spent over an hour cleaning the filter cartridges. Granted not my bet job ever, but only got a 2 psi drop in filter pressure, that was very disappointing. Wondering if some clarifier wouldn't help at this point. FC is still over 10 (just did a quick test with a strip), so I will probably do my TA lowering test tomorrow. Hopefully the 4 gallons of MA I picked up will be enough and I won't need to go back for more. Water is still not any clearer, but the foam is staying gone too. After I get the TA in line I'll switch from the waterfall to the polaris and see if that improves the cleaning cycle. Wondering if this can be clear by tomorrow evening. Going to have 5 kids here after school and it's aways easier when you can just throw them all in the pool.
 

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