First TF100 test Results - Need help please

[frustratedpoolmom]

Before you go to the expense of replacing the filter and pump - research using the google search feature - bottom left corner - about channelled sand. Consider opening up your filter and examinining the sand to see if it's channelled or if there is some other reason for the pressure. Also replacing the gauge is a good idea cuz they are inexpensive and do often enough go bad.

 

[Rockstead]

For a 300 pound sand filter, you should not have more than 60 gpm. You have probably channeled and over compacted the sand with excessive flow and debris. If you need to do major work on the filter, you might want to replace it with a larger DE or cartridge.

You would do much better with a smaller pump. You can replace the impeller with a smaller one and that will reduce your flow rate and your energy usage.

Which model pump do you have?

The Pool was built in July 2009, I think I have a 5 year warranty on my equipment, I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure, so maybe this is something I can call for.

My swim season is only 4 1/2 months at best and my electricity is cheap, is the pump that oversized? wouldn't having less flow mean poorer circulation or less balance? I tend to only run it 8-10 hours a day.

Would I be able to change the impeller myself, easily? a service call would eat away any savings, and wouldn't modifying it affect my warranty?

 

[Rockstead]

Before you go to the expense of replacing the filter and pump - research using the google search feature - bottom left corner - about channelled sand. Consider opening up your filter and examinining the sand to see if it's channelled or if there is some other reason for the pressure. Also replacing the gauge is a good idea cuz they are inexpensive and do often enough go bad.

Is it difficult to change the gauge? Do I have to open anything up?

I'll google the channeled sand, thank you.

 

[JamesW]

2 HP is way too big for that filter. You are pushing too much water through to allow it to do a proper job of collecting dirt. The flow rate should not exceed 20 gpm per square foot of sand surface area.

You have 3.14 square feet of surface area, which means a maximum of 63 gpm. This also applies to backwashing.

For example, the Hayward 2 HP Super II can pump over 140 gpm.

Which model do you have?

Tristar

Northstar

Super II

Super pump

How much do you pay per kilowatt-hour?

What is the exact model of your filter?

You should not have more than about 3/4 total HP, which makes your pump about 2.5 times too big.

How many skimmers do you have?

 

[JasonLion]

My swim season is only 4 1/2 months at best and my electricity is cheap, is the pump that oversized? wouldn't having less flow mean poorer circulation or less balance? I tend to only run it 8-10 hours a day.

You see 2 HP pumps often enough, so many other people are in the same situation. Still, yes it is quite oversized. A smaller pump almost never causes circulation problems, many pools run with variable speed pumps on extremely low speeds, way below 1/2 HP, with no circulation problems. 8-10 hours a day is also probably way longer than you need to run the pump, unless your plumbing is very restrictive.

Despite all that, it is almost never worth replacing a working pump, unless your electric rates are quite high. Actual problems with a sand filter are also rare unless the mis-match is even larger than yours. Channeling is possible, but it will normally take years to develop and can be fixed fairly easily.

 

[JamesW]

The easiest solution would be to change the impeller to a smaller size. The impeller runs about $30.00 and is easy to change. This will lower the flow and reduce electrical costs. It will also allow the pump to run cooler and last longer. It will also allow the filter to work much more efficiently.

 

[Rockstead]

How much do you pay per kilowatt-hour?

What is the exact model of your filter?

You should not have more than about 3/4 total HP, which makes your pump about 2.5 times too big.

How many skimmers do you have?

I'll get back to you on the models, but for my Electricity it is the following:

First 30 kWh per day = 0,0545
Remaining consumption kWh = 0.0751

 

[Rockstead]

My swim season is only 4 1/2 months at best and my electricity is cheap, is the pump that oversized? wouldn't having less flow mean poorer circulation or less balance? I tend to only run it 8-10 hours a day.

You see 2 HP pumps often enough, so many other people are in the same situation. Still, yes it is quite oversized. A smaller pump almost never causes circulation problems, many pools run with variable speed pumps on extremely low speeds, way below 1/2 HP, with no circulation problems. 8-10 hours a day is also probably way longer than you need to run the pump, unless your plumbing is very restrictive.

Despite all that, it is almost never worth replacing a working pump, unless your electric rates are quite high. Actual problems with a sand filter are also rare unless the mis-match is even larger than yours. Channeling is possible, but it will normally take years to develop and can be fixed fairly easily.

I think I remember a thread explaining how to calculate that, or I could have imagined it. Is there a calculator for that?

The only problem is my pump has to run when my Heat Pump is on, and if I want to keep my people at 80-85, the pump ends up running a lot of that time.

 

[JamesW]

My opinion is that the pool builder made a mistake putting a 2 HP pump on your pool. I think that they should make it right without any cost to you. At a minimum, I think that they should replace the sand, check the laterals and replace the impeller with a smaller size.

Even if you can't get the builder to do it for free, I think that it is well worth it to pay someone to do it for you. It's not just about the electrical costs, it's about overall performance and the longevity of your system.

I know that it seems somewhat counterintuitive, but reducing the flow will give you much better performance. Slowing the flow will allow the sand filter to work much better.

 

[JasonLion]

My opinion is that the pool builder made a mistake putting a 2 HP pump on your pool. I think that they should make it right without any cost to you.

Never going to happen if the pool is already complete. Some builders will do that if they haven't gotten the final payment yet, but even then it is a long shot and they would only do it to be nice.

 

[Rockstead]

My opinion is that the pool builder made a mistake putting a 2 HP pump on your pool. I think that they should make it right without any cost to you.

Never going to happen if the pool is already complete. Some builders will do that if they haven't gotten the final payment yet, but even then it is a long shot and they would only do it to be nice.

First off it's sad, but I don't know one person in my city that has a pool that doesn't have a 2HP Hayward pump and sand filter and a pool much smaller than mine, it's just standard operation here.

What if I wrote Hayward, would they say the equipment they paired me with is incompatible or not to spec? if that's the case then certainly I have recourse, we have excellent consumer protection laws where I live in Montreal, Canada.

Would a smaller impeller do the job, would it be equivelant to a reduced HP pump or is it just half assing it?

 

[thunderkyss]

Have we verified damage to the sand filter yet? Sand channeling? Though the pump may be oversized, is it 100% certain that this is the source of the original problem?

 

[Rockstead]

OK I don't know why I didn't do more troubleshooting, turning off the pump and verifying the filter gauge reveals that it stops at 12-13, so when I turn it on it goes to 32-33, so I think I can make the assumption the Gauge off by 10 PSI and it is actually 20 PSI which is normal right?

Another thing I got wrong was the pump size, I swear my contract had 2HP pump on it, 100%, but in my attempt to get the model # I saw on the pump label that it is actually 1.5 HP, now how much better is that for my flow and efficiency on working with the 300 Pound sand filter, am I still way off, how much lower in HP do I want it and should I even bother with the smaller impeller now that I know it is 1.5HP?

My pump model is C48L2N134B3, googling reveals it to be a Hayward Super II Pump, is that a good pump?

I also tried something different because I'm getting frustrated still not having a clear pool, I only had 1500PPM of Salt in the pool and the Salt Generator needs 2700-344 to turn on, so I bumped it up to 3000 and I'm going to leave it on Super Chlorinate while shocking.

I've bumped up my shocking to about 22-24 with liquid chlorine, how much higher can I safely bump it up to without damaging anything or discoloring my liner, I think it is worth a try having a higher FC as the shock FC I keep it at is just not working.

Also, is there any chance the sand if still channeled now that I know it is probably my Filter gauge that is broken? remember, pool is in 3rd season and my season is 4 1/2 months at the max.

Thanks!

 

[JamesW]

You don't need to change the impeller. It's less of an issue with a 1.5 HP pump than a 2.0 HP pump. 20 psi is still high, though. You can probably just replace the bad pressure gauge and operate with OK results.

If it were me, I would reduce the impeller. I have done it many times with good results.

You will have to decide what you want to do.

Regarding shocking, you can shock up to about 40 % of your cyanuric acid level.

 

[Bama Rambler]

Once a gauge is comprimised you can't use it with any degree of certainty. It's rarely just out of zero. The bourdon tube is usually bent and doesn't move linearly anymore. Your best bet is to get a new gauge and start over with your readings.

 

[Rockstead]

You don't need to change the impeller. It's less of an issue with a 1.5 HP pump than a 2.0 HP pump. 20 psi is still high, though. You can probably just replace the bad pressure gauge and operate with OK results.

If it were me, I would reduce the impeller. I have done it many times with good results.

You will have to decide what you want to do.

Regarding shocking, you can shock up to about 40 % of your cyanuric acid level.

What would you reduce the impeller to? would you happen to have a specific part #?

40% of my CYA would be 12, I started that way but I have been shocking at 20 for the last few days and my cloudy water won't clear up using Liquid Chlorine.

 

[Rockstead]

Once a gauge is comprimised you can't use it with any degree of certainty. It's rarely just out of zero. The bourdon tube is usually bent and doesn't move linearly anymore. Your best bet is to get a new gauge and start over with your readings.

Are the gauge's expensive? I searched googled videos but I couldn't find any how to videos for changing the gauge, is there one I can reference?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

No, they are inexpensive. Check the inside of the filter, JIC.

 

[dmanb2b]

Yup they can be sourced pretty cheaply. The replacement process is pretty simple. Turn off pump, unscrew the old guage, two wraps of teflon tape on the new guage (be careful not to wrap the tip (opening) of the guage and then screw it back in until snug (no need to overtighten). Turn pump on and check for leaks....your done

 

[Rockstead]

Yup they can be sourced pretty cheaply. The replacement process is pretty simple. Turn off pump, unscrew the old guage, two wraps of teflon tape on the new guage (be careful not to wrap the tip (opening) of the guage and then screw it back in until snug (no need to overtighten). Turn pump on and check for leaks....your done

wow, that easy, I was sure I would have to drain the pump, good to know.