DampRid Fragrance Free (with Microban)

[DrNinjaman]

So I'm doing a new fill of the hot tub and going through all the steps being extra careful with my measurements to try to avoid what happened last time when I overshot the salt by 400ppm and almost ended up having to drain a bunch and try again. In the process of getting the water set up, I noticed something that had slipped past me last time. The Damp Rid I've been using to balance the calcium says it contains "Microban" and is only 78% calcium chloride.
Does anyone have any idea what else is in this stuff? I'm not going to use it this time, since my tap water is about 120ppm calcium anyway and my spa is acrylic, so according to everytjing I've read on here I really don't need to raise it anywhere. I only added it before because the SWCG manual says to keep the calcium between 200 to 400 ppm and it was an easy enough adjustment to bring it up to 200ppm. Could this have been related to my issues last time getting the water balanced and the salt levels correct? I think the "Microban" ingredient is primarily urea based on what little MSDS data I've been able to find. Any idea if that would be a problem in my tub? Honestly, once I got everything leveled out the water was just as steady and easy to maintain as with the purer all CaCl DampRid, but given my heater problems I'm a little jumpy about weird stuff in my water.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

I accidentally broke a bag of collected water in a DampRid bag hanging in my closet and it was almost like oily water. I would not put that in any hot tub I was going to sit in.

Maddie

 

[DrNinjaman]

I accidentally broke a bag of collected water in a DampRid bag hanging in my closet and it was almost like oily water. I would not put that in any hot tub I was going to sit in.

Maddie

Well, the brine that forms when Calcium Chloride absorbs water would probably feel kind of weird, as it would be super salty, but that doesn't mean that it's not the right stuff for raising the water hardness.
Plain old regular Damp Rid is basically 98% Calcium Chloride with the rest being Sodium Chloride (not a problem in my salt water tub) and Potassium Chloride (maybe, probably not a problem?) so it's exactly what I should be using to raise the calcium hardness. The problem is I bought this b.s. new stuff by mistake (and I bought an absolute ton of it since it was cheaper in bulk and I figured I'd use it up eventually ) which has "Microban" in it and is labeled as only 78% calcium chloride. I'm just wondering if anybody knows what's in that other 22% and if I should be worried about soaking my tub with it for 4 months? Like I said before, it seems like it might be mostly urea, which makes some sense to me because I think that converts into ammonia in water, hence acting as a "Microban". Only problem is I've also heard of ammonia/urea based fertilizers causing algae blooms as a source of nitrogen that promotes algae growth and that's NOT something I want. Also, ammonia is not as nice smelling as chlorine. I suspect that the amounts in question here are probably not too problematic, but after some of my other hunches weren't very accurate, I'm approaching this more carefully.

 

[newdude]

Real talk time Ninjaman. You are cheaping out and possibly soaking in harmful chemicals, over hot tub doses/amounts of calcium.

Buy a name brand of actual calcium. Not some sketcy de-icer or anything else not intended for pools/spas. 1 lb will raise you 0 to 150 and the bag will last you for years. On top of that, pool/spa calcium is cheaper than damp rid and available in small bags most places.

At Walmart for example, a 4 lb bag is $11 while 3 lbs of damp rid is $13. It makes zero sense to add it to your tub because it's more expensive.

Do you foam without the calcium ? Plenty of folks don't even need it in the first place.

 

[Bperry]

Well, the brine that forms when Calcium Chloride absorbs water would probably feel kind of weird, as it would be super salty, but that doesn't mean that it's not the right stuff for raising the water hardness.
Plain old regular Damp Rid is basically 98% Calcium Chloride with the rest being Sodium Chloride (not a problem in my salt water tub) and Potassium Chloride (maybe, probably not a problem?) so it's exactly what I should be using to raise the calcium hardness. The problem is I bought this b.s. new stuff by mistake (and I bought an absolute ton of it since it was cheaper in bulk and I figured I'd use it up eventually ) which has "Microban" in it and is labeled as only 78% calcium chloride. I'm just wondering if anybody knows what's in that other 22% and if I should be worried about soaking my tub with it for 4 months? Like I said before, it seems like it might be mostly urea, which makes some sense to me because I think that converts into ammonia in water, hence acting as a "Microban". Only problem is I've also heard of ammonia/urea based fertilizers causing algae blooms as a source of nitrogen that promotes algae growth and that's NOT something I want. Also, ammonia is not as nice smelling as chlorine. I suspect that the amounts in question here are probably not too problematic, but after some of my other hunches weren't very accurate, I'm approaching this more carefully.

Here’s a discussion about it from a while back.

Using "Damprid" to add calcium

Has anyone here heard of using the product Damprid to add calcium to a pool? I'm attaching the MSDS. The only thing in there that has me questioning the use is the potassium. I can't get the ice melter around here, cal-hypo "shock" products are hard to come by, all I can get is dichlor or...

staging.troublefreepool.com

Some of the SDS of microban list starch, urea, ammonium chloride (and a bunch of other stuff) as an ingredient but couldn’t find an SDS specifically for that product variation. Without knowing what it is, it breaks the TFP rule about not putting in stuff that you don’t know what they’ll do. In this case it’s a little more questionable cause you’de be soaking in a solution of the product and not just leaving a bucket of it in a closet. Doesn’t appear to be worth the risk.

 

[Mdragger88]

It could have been part of the culprit- I would nix it & it’s strange ingredients.
You don’t really need ch anyway. Your smarter spa swg will be fine. Enjoy your simple spa !
Btw - how is the smarter spa swg working for you? Is it really smart?

 

[DrNinjaman]

Real talk time Ninjaman. You are cheaping out and possibly soaking in harmful chemicals, over hot tub doses/amounts of calcium.

Buy a name brand of actual calcium. Not some sketcy de-icer or anything else not intended for pools/spas. 1 lb will raise you 0 to 150 and the bag will last you for years. On top of that, pool/spa calcium is cheaper than damp rid and available in small bags most places.

At Walmart for example, a 4 lb bag is $11 while 3 lbs of damp rid is $13. It makes zero sense to add it to your tub because it's more expensive.

Do you foam without the calcium ? Plenty of folks don't even need it in the first place.

This is fair. On the other hand, my local pool store feels no qualms about selling me baking soda at $12 per pound. So I feel a little justified to not just buy what they put on the shelf no questions asked. Half the stuff that they sell are just repackaged laundry chemicals.
Anyway, I'm not using this Damp Rid Crud anymore, I misread the label when I bought it, like I said, I definitely wouldn't have bought the microban stuff had I noticed. However, nobody got Legionaire's disease and I don't have any weird stains in the tub, so looks like we'll chalk that up to experience and move on. And yeah, looking into it more, it does appear that pool specific calcium is appropriately priced at about $2.50/lb in bulk.
So, last question, do I need to raise it? Is there any benefit? I am running a saltwater generator, and have had some corrosion issues in the past, would higher calcium do anything to protect against that? The chlorine generator instructions recommend calcium levels between 200ppm and 400ppm, which is the only reason I've bothered thus far.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Ingredient Disclosure

Microban International, Ltd. is the leading provider of built-in antimicrobial technologies and odor control solutions. Learn more today.

www.microban.com

Quite a list of chemicals - surfactants, pH adjusters, anti-microbial compounds and fragrances… whatever they added to the DampRid (love that stuff, by the ways..), it definitely is going to make hot tub water funky ….

Stick to pure CaCl2, even with the up charge, and avoid the headache.

 

[DrNinjaman]

It could have been part of the culprit- I would nix it & it’s strange ingredients.
You don’t really need ch anyway. Your smarter spa swg will be fine. Enjoy your simple spa !
Btw - how is the smarter spa swg working for you? Is it really smart?

@Mdragger88
I'm liking it a lot more lately. You may remember that at one point I was trying out placing the cell inside the hollow spa filter that's intended for a nature 2 mineral stick as a way to sanitize the pool while keeping the cell out of the way. In my head, this was essentially the same as an inline install but with the cell easier to access for maintenance.
Turns out, that is not a good place to put the cell. Rusted two heaters to non-functioning, and had a terrible time getting the sensor to react to the sanitizer level at all. It was to the point that it was much worse than a timer controlled cell. Controlomatic was a good sport about my boneheadedness and agreed to swap the control board for a chlormaker timed rig at no cost. I did that and when I was talking with them noticed that the cable for my cell appeared to be degrading, sloughing off insulation and getting soft, like plastic cleaned with gasoline.
At that point I had had the second heater fail and after some discussion on here and with other sources decided that I had probably done this to myself by injecting the chlorine bubbles straight into the heater intake. Also I had probably messed up the sensor the same way as it apparently has trouble with fluid flowing past at the wrong speed.
So when I contacted Controlomatic about the degrading cable, they agreed to replace the whole cell and cable free of charge, since the insulation was defective. They also let me switch back to the smarter spa controller, because they asked if I wanted a replacement cell with the sensor that my current board didn't use or the simpler one for the timed controller.
Having fully come to terms with my error, I asked for the smarter spa board back. So that's where I am now. I must say that they have substantially improved the quality of the cell, the new one had much more robust sensor wires that are supported on both ends rather than the flimsy ones on the first cell. Also the cable insulation isn't melting off.
And yeah, now that I put the cell in the middle of the spa like the instructions say, it works like a clock, holding the water between 2 and 4ppm FC with almost no interference from me. I'm very happy with it. If the heater elements last a bit longer now that I moved the cell, I'll be totally satisfied.

 

[newdude]

Road test it and see if you have more foaming with CH under 150. Raise it if you feel it will help with that.

 

[Mdragger88]

@Mdragger88
I'm liking it a lot more lately. You may remember that at one point I was trying out placing the cell inside the hollow spa filter that's intended for a nature 2 mineral stick as a way to sanitize the pool while keeping the cell out of the way. In my head, this was essentially the same as an inline install but with the cell easier to access for maintenance.
Turns out, that is not a good place to put the cell. Rusted two heaters to non-functioning, and had a terrible time getting the sensor to react to the sanitizer level at all. It was to the point that it was much worse than a timer controlled cell. Controlomatic was a good sport about my boneheadedness and agreed to swap the control board for a chlormaker timed rig at no cost. I did that and when I was talking with them noticed that the cable for my cell appeared to be degrading, sloughing off insulation and getting soft, like plastic cleaned with gasoline.
At that point I had had the second heater fail and after some discussion on here and with other sources decided that I had probably done this to myself by injecting the chlorine bubbles straight into the heater intake. Also I had probably messed up the sensor the same way as it apparently has trouble with fluid flowing past at the wrong speed.
So when I contacted Controlomatic about the degrading cable, they agreed to replace the whole cell and cable free of charge, since the insulation was defective. They also let me switch back to the smarter spa controller, because they asked if I wanted a replacement cell with the sensor that my current board didn't use or the simpler one for the timed controller.
Having fully come to terms with my error, I asked for the smarter spa board back. So that's where I am now. I must say that they have substantially improved the quality of the cell, the new one had much more robust sensor wires that are supported on both ends rather than the flimsy ones on the first cell. Also the cable insulation isn't melting off.
And yeah, now that I put the cell in the middle of the spa like the instructions say, it works like a clock, holding the water between 2 and 4ppm FC with almost no interference from me. I'm very happy with it. If the heater elements last a bit longer now that I moved the cell, I'll be totally satisfied.

They also have an inline conversion kit I believe if that’s something you want long term. I imagine it would be after the heater & pumps so shouldn’t suffer the same fate as you previously experienced.

 

[phonedave]

So, last question, do I need to raise it? Is there any benefit? I am running a saltwater generator, and have had some corrosion issues in the past, would higher calcium do anything to protect against that? The chlorine generator instructions recommend calcium levels between 200ppm and 400ppm, which is the only reason I've bothered thus far.

I only raise mine because it helps with foaming.

That's about it

 

[DrNinjaman]

They also have an inline conversion kit I believe if that’s something you want long term. I imagine it would be after the heater & pumps so shouldn’t suffer the same fate as you previously experienced.

Yeah, I know about that, and I've got a continuous circ pump, so it's doable, my only issue with that is that you're supposed to dunk the cell in vinegar for 20 minutes every two weeks and then brush off the sensor wires to keep scale from building up and if it's in the plumbing/cabinet it's going to be a whole procedure to pull it out. That's precisely the reason I was putting it in the filter. Seemed like the best of both worlds. Out of the way for using the spa, easy to clean for maintenance. Alas, it was a fool's errand. It's fine like this, I just toss it in the filter compartment when we use the spa, and keep an eye on it so it doesn't start generating while it's in there. Hit the old "boost" button twice to suspend operations for 3 hours and hit it again after we get out and I've put the cell back in the middle. Works fine even if the cable flopping around is a little untidy.

 

[Mdragger88]

Yeah, I know about that, and I've got a continuous circ pump, so it's doable, my only issue with that is that you're supposed to dunk the cell in vinegar for 20 minutes every two weeks and then brush off the sensor wires to keep scale from building up and if it's in the plumbing/cabinet it's going to be a whole procedure to pull it out. That's precisely the reason I was putting it in the filter. Seemed like the best of both worlds. Out of the way for using the spa, easy to clean for maintenance. Alas, it was a fool's errand. It's fine like this, I just toss it in the filter compartment when we use the spa, and keep an eye on it so it doesn't start generating while it's in there. Hit the old "boost" button twice to suspend operations for 3 hours and hit it again after we get out and I've put the cell back in the middle. Works fine even if the cable flopping around is a little untidy.

Are you getting alot of build up? Every two weeks with acid is quite aggressive. Alot of people never need to clean their cell . Cleaning with acid reduces its life

 

[newdude]

+1. My 1st SWG said right on it to acid clean it every 3 months. The new ones say to inspect and clean when necessary.

The manufacturer may not have come around, especially in a hot tub that typically has lower calcium and is less prone to scaling.

 

[phonedave]

+1. My 1st SWG said right on it to acid clean it every 3 months. The new ones say to inspect and clean when necessary.

The manufacturer may not have come around, especially in a hot tub that typically has lower calcium and is less prone to scaling.

I don't have a SWCG in my tub, but I do in my pool. Every season I look over the grids closely. I have cleaned it with acid once in 4 or 5 seasons.

It really should be cleaned as needed, as cleaning when not necessary degrades the grids.

 

[DrNinjaman]

Are you getting alot of build up? Every two weeks with acid is quite aggressive. Alot of people never need to clean their cell . Cleaning with acid reduces its life

That's a good point, I haven't noted a lot of build up. And now that I'm not adding calcium to the water, I expect I will have even less than that. One of the sensor electrodes gets a little green corrosion on it, but the plates have stayed pretty clean. The current edition of Controlomatic's manual says to "inspect" the cell every two weeks, not necessarily acid dip it, so I'm probably cleaning too aggressively. That would make an inline install potentially more appealing, since I'm currently a little worried about somebody (me, probably) getting the power or cell cable tangled up in their (my) feet and yanking them out of the control box. I have the kit for it, I just haven't installed it. Plus I would need the version of the cell with the threaded base instead of the drop in. Maybe once this one stops working I'll see about putting in the inline plumbing.
Appreciate the tip! Always happy to hear when I can do some of the maintenance less frequently.