Constant PH rise.

[Octavarium]

Hey folks,

Only my second year of having the pool and I don't remember ever adding this much Ph Down, seems I'm adding some every 2-3 days to keep the PH below 7.8. We have a 5950 Gallon salt water pool (above ground vinyl) and I recently just discovered the recommended ranges on this site. Got the water tested yesterday with these results:

FC: 2.55ppm
Total: 2.94ppm
Combined: 0.39ppm
pH 7.8
Hardness 118ppm
Alkalinity 71ppm
Cyanuric Acid 20 ppm (which I wanted to bring up to the 75-80 range according to that guide)
Copper, iron, phosphate all 0ppm.
Salt 2990ppm.

According to the calculator, I added 1250grams of CYA and waited on the pH down since I figured the CYA would drop my Ph, which it did to 7.2, but it's already back at 7.8.

First question, will that much CYA drop my alkalinity? Do I need to add borates? Should I wait a few days with the newly upped CYA and see what happens?

Maybe a stupid question, but this pool is small and the pump is very strong, could that be cause any aeration? The return jet is well below the surface of the water, but it still shoots it out like crazy.

Anyhow, sorry for all the questions, still new to this and still stuck going to the pool store for testing since these Taylor Kits are about 235$ here.

Thanks.

 

[tim5055]

Well, your comments/questions require several comments and observations from me

Got the water tested yesterday

Not much credence is given to pool store testing around here. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Between employees who blindly trust the word of chemical sales representatives and high school kids working in the pool store for the summer you end up with poor results from their testing. Plus, the results of their "testing" is used to convince you that you need to buy things. Why do you think that testing is free? You need your own test kit, more about that later.

The pool store leads into this

I don't remember ever adding this much Ph Down

PH Down, PH Reducer, PH Decreaser, Lo-n-Slo (all generally Sodium Bisulfate) are all sold by Pool Stores as a pH reducer, but what they don't tell you is that continued use can result in the build up of sulfides in you pool water which can damage both vinyl and gunite pools. Murtic acid is a less expensive and safer (for the pool) alternative.

Sodium Bisulfate vs. Muriatic Acid

will that much CYA drop my alkalinity

CYA is an acid and will affect pH and to a lesser degree TA

Do I need to add borates?

Borates are really an advanced item to add and only should be added when the chemistry in the pool is perfect. They are not a solution to current problems

but this pool is small and the pump is very strong, could that be cause any aeration?

If it is causing the surface of the water to have ripples, then yes - it is causing aeration.

still stuck going to the pool store for testing since these Taylor Kits are about 235$ here

The pool store seems to be doing you no favors. I would find a way to pick up a K-2006 or have a TF100 test kit shipped south of the border.

 

[Texas Splash]

A few things to help get you back on track:
- To lower pH (and TA), the best choice is muriatic acid from your local hardware store or perhaps even your pool store. It's not too expensive and works very well/fast.
- But before trying to lower anything, other than pH perhaps, I would be concerned with those test results. They appear to be from the pool store, and we highly encourage you to test your own water with a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C test kit. It's quite easy and much more reliable/accurate. Your TA is already in a pretty good level if we trust that store test, so you don't want to mess with the TA much more.
- I suspect your biggest enemy with the pH might be aeration. The SWG, and sprayers or fountains, and even just splashing around can increase pH. Oh, and of course adding fresh water. If the return jet isn't pushing air into the water, I doubt that increased pressure is an issue.
- The CYA (stabilizer) is only used to protect the FC from the sun and help the SWG work more efficiently. I'd be careful about increasing too high as the CYA test is not very reliable when performed indoors, which is another reason to test it on your own if you can.
- AT this point, I would refrain from messing with borates until you have the levels more stable and especially until you have your own test kit. Adding borates can complicate matters if everything isn't performed just right.

All the references you need are below in my signature. Hope that helps.

- - - Updated - - -

Aahhhhh. Look at that. Tim beat me to the punch.

 

[tim5055]

Aahhhhh. Look at that. Tim beat me to the punch.

Yup,

 

[Octavarium]

Ya, I've been looking at getting either or, but the prices to Canada or within Canada are insane. Cheapest I've found was 165$ (not free shipping) for the 2006 and 235$ (again, not including shipping) for the 2006C. TF100 is US only and unfortunately don't have my passport right now to even get into the US to just get it delivered there. The recommendations I found online are from years ago and none of the sites seem to be up and running (or selling the product). Hopefully I didn't go overboard with the stabilizer hah.

So I'm currently stuck with the store and strips/basic ph phenol test which I know isn't ideal. Guess I'll keep hunting for those kits and hopefully find something in the 100-150$ range.

 

[Claydig]

So I'm currently stuck with the store and strips/basic ph phenol test which I know isn't ideal. Guess I'll keep hunting for those kits and hopefully find something in the 100-150$ range.

A little help from a fellow Canadian... I also scoured the Internet for a reasonably priced test kit.
The best I found was VMInnovations. Check their website. They have the Taylor K-2006 test kit for $59.99 USD. Shipping isn't cheap, but after shipping and exchange, it was about $112 CAD and that's the best I've found.
Received it in less than a week.
Good luck!

 

[Octavarium]

A little help from a fellow Canadian... I also scoured the Internet for a reasonably priced test kit.
The best I found was VMInnovations. Check their website. They have the Taylor K-2006 test kit for $59.99 USD. Shipping isn't cheap, but after shipping and exchange, it was about $112 CAD and that's the best I've found.
Received it in less than a week.
Good luck!

Hmmm, only seeing a two pack for 105$. Wonder if I contact them.

Edit: Nevermind, found it a few pages over. I can deal with that price tag.

 

[Saturn94]

A little help from a fellow Canadian... I also scoured the Internet for a reasonably priced test kit.
The best I found was VMInnovations. Check their website. They have the Taylor K-2006 test kit for $59.99 USD. Shipping isn't cheap, but after shipping and exchange, it was about $112 CAD and that's the best I've found.
Received it in less than a week.
Good luck!

Check the expiration dates on those reagents.

This spring I ordered a reagent I needed from VMInnovations and the bottle they sent expired Jan 2017! I contacted them; they apologized and immediately sent another bottle, which also expired Jan 2017! You would think that after I alerted them they would have checked their stock, but I guess they just ship whatever and hope the customer won’t notice. They did promptly issue a refund at my request (I got what I needed somewhere else).

 

[Octavarium]

Check the expiration dates on those reagents.

This spring I ordered a reagent I needed from VMInnovations and the bottle they sent expired Jan 2017! I contacted them; they apologized and immediately sent another bottle, which also expired Jan 2017! You would think that after I alerted them they would have checked their stock, but I guess they just ship whatever and hope the customer won’t notice. They did promptly issue a refund at my request (I got what I needed somewhere else).

Just ordered one, so I'll keep an eye out for it! Thanks.

I don't get why these pool stores give such inaccurate results. If they were honest, I'd be more apt at buying products from them and testing more often. Now, I buy a kit, get my products elsewhere and they lose my business entirely. Hopefully I haven't screwed up my water too much, but it has been clear with only the Ph giving me problems.

 

[Claydig]

You had me worried about the expiry dates, but I just checked them and they're all late 2019.

 

[Octavarium]

The store I go to uses a Waterlink datamate 10 by Lamotte. These just not accurate? Or is it simply you can't trust the employees to be properly using it etc?

 

[Poolzzz]

The best I found was VMInnovations. Check their website. They have the Taylor K-2006 test kit for $59.99 USD. Shipping isn't cheap, but after shipping and exchange, it was about $112 CAD and that's the best I've found.

The problem is the K-2006 has very small amount of reagents. You would need about three of them to equal one TF100. So that's $336 to match the TF-100. Even using a mail forwarding service it's probably much cheaper to buy the TF-100.

 

[Octavarium]

Finally got the kit, not expired and everything was pretty darn good considering I was using the pool store/strips/phenol/OTO. Only thing that seemed to be off from the store was the CC, I had none according to the K-2006 while the store always seems to find some.

The problem is the K-2006 has very small amount of reagents. You would need about three of them to equal one TF100. So that's $336 to match the TF-100. Even using a mail forwarding service it's probably much cheaper to buy the TF-100.

Honestly, I'd probably only re-stock the CYA reagent and Alkalinity once it runs out. Those are really the only things I have no flippin idea about with strips. The FC on strips isn't super accurate, but it always gives me a pretty good idea. Either way, the kit was as advertised and I'll just keep buying what I need every couple years. Pools only open 4-5 months of the year, so I shouldn't go through all this stuff that quickly.