Cloudy water - because of Jack's Magic #2?

[Sumthinred]

August 2023 I treated my plaster pool with Jacks Magic Stain Solution #2, I wish I hadn't. Closed the pool in September (FC/CC off), Opened it April 28th, 2024. Water looked fine, but once I brushed I had some sediment on the bottom, it stirred up and clouded the pool, a few days later it seemed to be clearing up clear. Until I brushed again and threw the Polaris 280 in. I have been battling cloudy water since. Brushing makes it worse. I can still see the bottom in 8ft, but it is not crystal clear. I have been running filter about 16 hrs a day, increased to 24 hrs today. I have cleaned the carts once so far, they were pretty gunky. AND of course my FC/ CC is still messed up. I am not sure if I should try to SLAM, I have been hoping it will work it self out, but I am not so sure now. Drain and refill not an option, all water added after opening in spring was rain water. So what I am asking is, should I try to SLAM to fix my FC/CC issue? Should I wait longer? Could something else be causing the cloudiness? Other options?

Thanks in advance.

FC: 0.6
CC: 6.0
PH: 7.6
TA: 70
CYA: 70
CH: 350
Temp: 76

 

[mknauss]

Acid - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[mknauss]

SLAM will not resolve the sulfamic acid issue. Only dilution. Why is a no drain exchange not an option?

 

[Sumthinred]

SLAM will not resolve the sulfamic acid issue. Only dilution. Why is a no drain exchange not an option?

I am on a well, I am not comfortable pumping that much water from it at once, don't want to burn up the well pump. I am under the impression that the acid issue should resolve on it's own at some point, am I mistaken? Could the sulfamic acid still be causing plaster dust at this point?

 

[Sumthinred]

Acid - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

What a disaster.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

What a disaster.

Yes. It is. Which is why TFP only recommends using sulfamic acid if you can dump the pool water. Depending on how much you added it can not only damage plaster, but also ruin SWGs and make chlorine maintenance a royal PITA.

The best you can do now is SLAM the pool to see how far up the FC will go when adding shock levels of chlorine (40% of CYA) and then maintain it to see if the CCs go down over time. Sulfamate does break down with chlorine and sunlight exposure but it can take a very long time. You can help it along by trying to capture as much rain as possible by draining the pool prior to an impending rainfall.

 

[Sumthinred]

SLAM will not resolve the sulfamic acid issue. Only dilution. Why is a no drain exchange not an option?

I talked to a pool water company today, they can provide 6000 gallon loads of water. Would 6,000 gallons be enough to make a difference? 12,000? I don't want to go thru the effort / expense if that wont get me closer to back on track. Thanks again.

 

[mknauss]

Any dilution will help. It will not be gone unless you replace substantially all the water.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Keep in mind that trucked in water typically comes from a fire hydrant fill as close to your home as possible. It’s usually municipal water. So as long as you trust your local water quality, that’s fine but some people realize that the local city water isn’t any better than their own well water.

I do understand the predicament you’re in with a well and limited fill options. Do the best you can to exchange pool water. Keep the water chlorinated even though the FC is going to register low and the CCs will register high. N-chlorosulfamates (the stuff registering as CCs on your pool water testing) are actually biocides they are just a lot slower and less effective than free chlorine. But they will keep algae at bay until situation starts to reverse.

 

[Gotta Pool]

Let me say this a bit differently, without getting too technical. This Jacks Magic Stain Solution #2 snake oil converts copper, but does not remove the resulting chemical soup from your pool. In fact, if you leave the resulting compounds in your pool too long, the stain will reappear.

I, personally, know of no way to rid your pool of the resulting compounds (which you must do) other than dumping the nasty water. You have a large pool and many gallons of unfriendly water to make disappear.

The water in your pool is now laced with a (probably huge) excess of CC that may take most of the season (if not longer) to remove. IOW, Superchorination (SLAM) will will be needed to be repeated frequently and repeated for an extended period of time until things settle back down.

Perhaps a conversation on why the acid was added and what other mitigating actions may be necessary, in the future. If your fill water is high in copper, that is a different but concurrent conversation and may involve talking about your replacement fill water (from the well and/or the 6,000 gal. shipments).

 

[Sumthinred]

Keep in mind that trucked in water typically comes from a fire hydrant fill as close to your home as possible. It’s usually municipal water. So as long as you trust your local water quality, that’s fine but some people realize that the local city water isn’t any better than their own well water.

I do understand the predicament you’re in with a well and limited fill options. Do the best you can to exchange pool water. Keep the water chlorinated even though the FC is going to register low and the CCs will register high. N-chlorosulfamates (the stuff registering as CCs on your pool water testing) are actually biocides they are just a lot slower and less effective than free chlorine. But they will keep algae at bay until situation starts to reverse.

It's still well water (but comes from about 30 mins away from my house), but it is the only option where I live. They supply all pool companies and hotels in the area. I know It's a gamble, but I'm hoping to more quickly resolve the CC issue by diluting as much as reasonably possible without completely emptying the pool. I realize I caused my current issue, and I still have some staining on the plaster, but I guess I am just going to have to live with it for now, and hope it doesn't get worse.

Also, will exposing some of the plaster between partial drain and refill be an issue? Temps will probably be in the 80's during the day. I plan to drain the night before and fill as soon as the trucks can make it to my house.

 

[Sumthinred]

Acid - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

"Periodically do an OCLT to detect any excessive organic buildup. As long as you're passing the OCLT, your total chlorine level should be adequate."

So in my case, am I looking to TC to remain stable overnight? Or the small amount of FC that registers? Thank you.

 

[mknauss]

TC

 

[Sumthinred]

Yes. It is. Which is why TFP only recommends using sulfamic acid if you can dump the pool water. Depending on how much you added it can not only damage plaster, but also ruin SWGs and make chlorine maintenance a royal PITA.

The best you can do now is SLAM the pool to see how far up the FC will go when adding shock levels of chlorine (40% of CYA) and then maintain it to see if the CCs go down over time. Sulfamate does break down with chlorine and sunlight exposure but it can take a very long time. You can help it along by trying to capture as much rain as possible by draining the pool prior to an impending rainfall.

I am not sure if this question can be answered, but I am convinced I am still battling plaster dust as a result of the stain "treatment" I cannot seem to get the water clear unless I stop brushing or keep the vac out. Every day I am finding dust on the floor when brushing, I am pretty confident it's not an algae problem, though not 100% bc It's hard to get a good chlorine reading. I am scheduled to receive approx. 12,000 gallons of water next week, approx. 40% of my pool volume, should that be enough to make a difference? I am losing my mind. Thank you.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Have cleaned the filter lately? Look for tears in the cartridges, loose or missing air bleed screen, and make sure everything is properly lubed up. If there’s any water bypassing the filter cartridges, you’ll never clear the pool.

It would be good if you could rig up a vacuum to waste option. A very slow vacuuming of the bottom where the dust settles would help.

 

[Sumthinred]

Have cleaned the filter lately? Look for tears in the cartridges, loose or missing air bleed screen, and make sure everything is properly lubed up. If there’s any water bypassing the filter cartridges, you’ll never clear the pool.

It would be good if you could rig up a vacuum to waste option. A very slow vacuuming of the bottom where the dust settles would help.

I changed the filters two weeks ago to new filters. My plan is to pull the housing apart this weekend to make sure that is not an issue, I might throw the original filters back in to see if that helps, they have only been used for one summer. Is it possible with the ph (and everything else) in the proper range that the sulfamic acid is still causing new plaster dust? Not sure I have space for vacuum to waste but I will check it out. Thank you.

 

[Sumthinred]

Have cleaned the filter lately? Look for tears in the cartridges, loose or missing air bleed screen, and make sure everything is properly lubed up. If there’s any water bypassing the filter cartridges, you’ll never clear the pool.

It would be good if you could rig up a vacuum to waste option. A very slow vacuuming of the bottom where the dust settles would help.

Side note, I have been using PoolPure carts for two weeks. They seem to be contributing to the cloudyness if I am guessing. When I took them out to rinse them today, the hose sprays right thru them, to the middle of the cart. I am sending them back. Maybe the OEM carts will clear up the water?

 

[Sumthinred]

Keep in mind that trucked in water typically comes from a fire hydrant fill as close to your home as possible. It’s usually municipal water. So as long as you trust your local water quality, that’s fine but some people realize that the local city water isn’t any better than their own well water.

I do understand the predicament you’re in with a well and limited fill options. Do the best you can to exchange pool water. Keep the water chlorinated even though the FC is going to register low and the CCs will register high. N-chlorosulfamates (the stuff registering as CCs on your pool water testing) are actually biocides they are just a lot slower and less effective than free chlorine. But they will keep algae at bay until situation starts to reverse.

So for the first time since last summer my FC is a little higher than CC. I am not sure if I am finally getting over the hump or something else is happening? The TC has also been getting lower the last several days, even with me manually adding liquid chlorine. I still plan to get some clean water trucked in tomorrow just torn between 6,000 and 12,000 gallons. Partly for the cost, partly bc I am nervous to pump all of that water out of the pool, although, by my calculations, it will leave about one foot in the shallow end. Any suggestions?

Also, my PH has been constantly dropping lately, not sure why, TA has been stable at 70 since opening, not sure if it could be a related issue? I have added Borax a couple times to bump it up, but it keeps dropping to just above 7.

Thank you, as always.

FC: 1.8
CC: 1.4
PH: 7.3
TA: 70

 

[mknauss]

pH should not be dropping unless you are adding acid or an acidic product.

Up to you on the water. Good to see your FC is coming back a bit. Might take the rest of the summer or just do the water exchange and things will get better quickly.

 

[Sumthinred]

pH should not be dropping unless you are adding acid or an acidic product.

Up to you on the water. Good to see your FC is coming back a bit. Might take the rest of the summer or just do the water exchange and things will get better quickly.

Besides the standard suggested chemicals to get pool balanced after opening, I have only used a few tablespoons of ascorbic acid on a couple small stains, and Jack's Magic Magenta to help keeps the stains away. Could either be the issue?