Re-grouting the face of our raised spillover spa. Face is ugly due to the calcium (?) film and needs to be cleaned with an acid wash, CLR, pumice stone or combination. All old grout is gone and loose/missing tiles replaced. My question is whether I should clean the tiles first and then grout or grout first and then clean. My concern is the cleaner, which will certainly contain some form of mild acid, getting into the new cement and eating it away causing problems later on. Option is the same solution eating the new grout if I clean after. I would wait a couple of weeks to make sure the grout is cured. I used Platinum 254 cement and my grout will be epoxy based. Any comments appreciated.
Clean first and re-grout second or the other way around?
- Thread starter firstbase
- Start date
I would clean first. The acid may eat a little of the cement, but you will quickly dilute it with water which will stop the reaction.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,681
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
That's a very common misconception, and the very one that destroyed my pool plaster by an incompetent acid washing crew, who only rinsed the acid off with water. Water does not "stop the reaction" of acid. Only a neutralizing base does, like baking soda or ammonia mixed with water.
The build up you describe is typically removed with pressure blasting (using beads or other media). I'm not sure if that's because that's the best way to do it well, or if it's because the companies that offer this service don't want to take the chance of using acid on the tile to have it run down onto the plaster, or both.
I can tell you from my own experience that trying to remove pool water residue (presumably calcium and perhaps other compounds) from glass windows required manual abrasion. My Polaris pool cleaner's tail would regularly spray the windows, which was ignored for years by the previous home owner. My stone guru applied every type of chemical he had, including very strong acids, and the stains would not budge. We finally had to abrade it off using a very fine compound (with water, no acid) and a hand polisher. Which is what I recommend you try. I don't see you being able to control the acid well enough, its strength nor its whereabouts, to avoid damage to the pool (finish or mortar).
The product I used is called "Glass Renew" and this guy's address is on the label: Dave the Grout Guy - San Jose Granite, Limestone, Marble Grout Repair. I don't know if he sells the stuff, I got my jar from my stone guy, who swears by this product. At the very least, maybe give Dave the Grout Guy a call and describe your situation. Maybe he'll sell you the same stuff, or maybe he'll have a better solution. If there was any abrasion done to the glass by the process and materials I used, I can't see it. My windows are crystal clear now.
To be thorough, I couldn't say what this stuff might do to the water chemistry. That'd be a question for Dave.
If you decide to try acid anyway (which I don't recommend), I suggest you do it in a very small area, the least visible, to see how, or even if, it'll work. And be sure you have some sort of neutralizer on hand, one that you've practiced with on some throw-away material, so that you can quickly neutralize the acid should something go wrong. The other mistake my acid washer performed: they blasted the entire pool with acid before they noticed it was destroying the plaster.
Strike all that. Don't use acid.
And it wouldn't be one of my posts, of course, if I didn't encourage you to wear the appropriate protective gear for whatever you're working with: for eyes, skin, lungs, etc.
Let us know how it goes, and what worked. I'm sure your solution could be used by others here.
The build up you describe is typically removed with pressure blasting (using beads or other media). I'm not sure if that's because that's the best way to do it well, or if it's because the companies that offer this service don't want to take the chance of using acid on the tile to have it run down onto the plaster, or both.
I can tell you from my own experience that trying to remove pool water residue (presumably calcium and perhaps other compounds) from glass windows required manual abrasion. My Polaris pool cleaner's tail would regularly spray the windows, which was ignored for years by the previous home owner. My stone guru applied every type of chemical he had, including very strong acids, and the stains would not budge. We finally had to abrade it off using a very fine compound (with water, no acid) and a hand polisher. Which is what I recommend you try. I don't see you being able to control the acid well enough, its strength nor its whereabouts, to avoid damage to the pool (finish or mortar).
The product I used is called "Glass Renew" and this guy's address is on the label: Dave the Grout Guy - San Jose Granite, Limestone, Marble Grout Repair. I don't know if he sells the stuff, I got my jar from my stone guy, who swears by this product. At the very least, maybe give Dave the Grout Guy a call and describe your situation. Maybe he'll sell you the same stuff, or maybe he'll have a better solution. If there was any abrasion done to the glass by the process and materials I used, I can't see it. My windows are crystal clear now.
To be thorough, I couldn't say what this stuff might do to the water chemistry. That'd be a question for Dave.
Strike all that. Don't use acid.
And it wouldn't be one of my posts, of course, if I didn't encourage you to wear the appropriate protective gear for whatever you're working with: for eyes, skin, lungs, etc.
Let us know how it goes, and what worked. I'm sure your solution could be used by others here.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,681
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Thanks for the responses. Going to try mildest approach first, pumice stone and work my way up to dynamite. I know from past experience with built up calcium around hand holds and such the only way I got it off was with muriatic acid mix applied by Q-Tip. Easy to control it in those cases asI could make sure it went on the calcium "mound" only. This is a lighter coating, nowhere near as thick, but widespread across the face of the spa which is not controllable unless I go 1/2" X 1/2" tile one by one. About 8,000 tiles.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,681
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Well, project finished and good result so far. Ended up having to use a muriatic acid and water mix to clean the tiles. Nothing else really worked with any sort of efficiency. ended up being 6,900 tiles. Used the Platinum 254 cement to put back missing tiles as well as some that broke loose in the process and then Litokol Starlike epoxy grout. Grigio something or other color, light gray. Anyway, looks good at this point. I am unsure how long to wait before letting water go over the spillway? Directions don't talk about pool use. Says we can walk on it in 24 hours but 5 days for full use. The stuff is hard as a rock at 24 hours.
Here are some before, during, after pics. Big difference in person, more than pics show.
Here are some before, during, after pics. Big difference in person, more than pics show.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,681
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Yes big difference, looks pretty much like brand new. Something I didn't expect...prior to the grouting many tiles had lost their shine and, not sure what you call it, multicolored shimmering.... After applying the epoxy grout every tile looks brand new. Now sure if it is the action of the grout being floated on that shined them up or a thin coat of epoxy left behind? Don't know but looks nice.
Still trying to determine how long to cure before allowing the spa water to over flow on the top of the newly grouted spill over.....
Still trying to determine how long to cure before allowing the spa water to over flow on the top of the newly grouted spill over.....