Borates: to be or not to be?

[IMason]

Hello all. So everything is going so well with the pool and we are loving this summer heat!
I was wondering if I should add borates to my pool? Not for any particular reason but because I can and therefore should I?

FC: 5 (I have to watch this especially given our intense sun and my laziness with the solar blanket)
pH: 7.6 (add MA last night to get it to 7.4 - this is what I "struggle" with the most is a rising pH but I have my system to deal with this)
TA: 50-60
CYA: 70
CH: 350
NaCl: 4100

Thanks!

 

[jgofnj]

This gives you some info:

So you want to add borates to your pool--Why and How

 

[IMason]

Love it! thanks.

 

[jgofnj]

There is also this link:

Borates - Why and How

 

[Richard320]

Just because you can isn't a compelling reason to add borates, in my opinion.

Is it for the "feel"? You have high enough salt to cover that.
Is it for the pH rise?

You have a SWG... why are you running the pH so low? 7.6 is an acceptable level. Do you know how long the pH will sit at 7.6 or 7.7 or 7.8? Continuously micromanaging the pH will continuously lower the TA. You're almost to the point where you'll have to add baking soda to raise TA, which will then start to drive pH up again. That's the seesaw that the pool store will put you on. Maybe it's time to step back and see just where things stabilize.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

There are two compelling reasons to add borates for a pool owner -

1. If pH rise is an on-going issue and, even after lowering TA, you can't seem to get your acid addition frequency to a manageable level, then adding borates can help with that. As others have said, allowing the pH to live between 7.6 and 7.8 helps a lot in managing pH rise and acid addition frequency.

2. You have an SWG and borates DO help SWGs A LOT! Your calcium hardness is perfectly fine and so simply managing your CSI so that it stays between -0.3 and 0 will help keep the cell scale free. However, for people like me that live in a desert with very hard water (after 4 years my pool has a CH of nearly 1200ppm), adding borates is almost mandatory. Inside the SWG, the pH rises very rapidly when the cell is producing chlorine; pH can easily spike up to 10. At those pH levels, calcium scale will happen at almost any level of CH. Borates in the pool water will cut the rise in pH substantially (a little less than half) since borates act as a very strong buffer when the pH is near 9.0. By reducing the pH inside the cell when it is generating chlorine, you can easily avoid scaling. Calcium scale inside the cell is very bad because the only way to clean it is with an acid soak. Low pH destroys the coating on the plates and so every acid clean of cell diminishes it's usable life.

 

[IMason]

Richard320: I try to keep my pH lower because I do have quick rises in pH and have been in the 8.0 range so I don't want to go back there! I am consistently adding acid every few days. One of the reasons why I am wondering if borates will help me. I don't go to the pool store and do this all with a test kit. and I'm guessing why my TA is decreasing as it had been up to 80+ but maybe I am getting to a steadystate now.

JoyfulNoise: thank you! while we don't live in the desert, I would say we are semi-desert. i would attest to the fact that when my SWG is pumping out chlorine i have to keep on top of my pH. so i think i will definitely try to add borates. do you have a way that you add borates? there were some links referenced above that seem very comprehensive.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I try to keep my pH lower because I do have quick rises in pH and have been in the 8.0 range so I don't want to go back there! I am consistently adding acid every few days. One of the reasons why I am wondering if borates will help me. I don't go to the pool store and do this all with a test kit.

The rate of pH rise is not linear. The rate of rise is a lot faster at lower pH (7.0-7.5) than at higher pH (7.6-8.0). So while it seems counter-intuitive that setting pH to a lower value will give you more time, it doesn't. All it does is waste acid.

If you lower your TA to 60ppm and then set your pH so that it's no lower than 7.6, you'll experience a slower rise in pH. Don't add acid until it goes over 7.8.

 

[IMason]

If you lower your TA to 60ppm and then set your pH so that it's no lower than 7.6, you'll experience a slower rise in pH. Don't add acid until it goes over 7.8.[/QUOTE]

Good to know. I did not know it's not linear. Thanks!

 

[jgofnj]

Taking from a previous sticky/post:

Several companies are selling sodium tetraborate pentahydrate as a pool additive under such names as Proteam's Supreme, Bioguard's Optimizer Plus, Poollife Endure, Guardex Maximizer, and others. Several claims have been made for these products when used in a 30-50 ppm concentration such as:

1) more stable pH
2) Algaestatic properties
3) reduced chlorine usage
4) silkier feeling water--less skin and eye irritation
5) clearer, 'sparkling' water

Do these products live up to the claims made for them?
A definite YES!​

Given the post above, If I have no issues with PH and don't have SWG and onlly wanted the benefits of #2 and #3, is it worth adding Borates?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

The algaestatic properties are way overblown. At 50ppm, borates could only be considered an algae growth "inhibitor"...meaning it slows the growth slightly but definitely does not act as an algaecide. It's only in concentrations near 200ppm that borates could act as an algaecide but that would also be too high of a level for people too. It wouldn't kill a human but it could make you feel ill.

As for less chlorine use - NOPE. Borates and chlorine have no chemical interactions. The spike that some people sometimes see with borates and SWGs (I saw it in my own pool) stems from the slightly easier time that chlorine has killing algae that's already being inhibited by the presence of boron in the water and, in some instances, the improved functioning of an SWG with respect to scale formation. But not everyone sees an FC bump from adding borates and, if you manually dose liquid chlorine, I don't think you'd see the effect at all.

Its primary benefit is for pH control, that's about it...

 

[jstephens1]

i just added borates two days ago. i did it for the feel and to help with PH rise with the SWG. best money i've spent. i didn't tell the wife i added anything to te pool and today both my wife and son mentioned how much softer the water felt. that is a bonus for me