Adding Fill Valve to Intellicenter

[Gudhjem]

I've been studying for a month and can't manage a few basic things with my new Intellicenter (upgraded from Easytouch). First among them is my fill valve. The valve is a basic 24v sprinkler valve that was installed by the pool builder with the Easytouch. I thought I would simply connect the valve (2 wires) to an auxillery circuit on the intellicenter, create a circuit using that auxillery (with egg timer), and be done. This worked for my lights and spa jet SP pump (although those of course run through relays). It doesn't work for the fill valve.

The Easytouch used AUX7 for fill, and AUX7 on the intellicenter has the same connector, but I don't know if it's 24V (and could not find a schematic). So I checked voltage at AUX7, and it's not producing any when I activate the circuit (shows about half a volt on or off). I probably have something programmed wrong.



Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks.

 

[Jimrahbe]

G,

Most sprinkler valves use 24 Volts AC... The Aux relays are turned on and off by 24 Volts DC..

You need 24 Volts AC on the line side of the Aux relay and then the fill line connected to the Load side of the relay.

I suspect that when you upgraded, they did not reconnect the 24 Volts from your new transformer to the Aux relay.

Where did your original fill line get its 24 volts AC??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Gudhjem]

G,

Most sprinkler valves use 24 Volts AC... The Aux relays are turned on and off by 24 Volts DC..

You need 24 Volts AC on the line side of the Aux relay and then the fill line connected to the Load side of the relay.

I suspect that when you upgraded, they did not reconnect the 24 Volts from your new transformer to the Aux relay.

Where did your original fill line get its 24 volts AC??

Thanks,

Jim R.

You're right Jim, it does appear this one is 24VAC (always thought the sprinkler valves were run from controllers ouputting DC).

What aux relay are you referring to? I installed the upgrade, no they involved.

The Easytouch connected to this same valve using connector J15/aux7. I marked the wires before removing them. The 2 wires ran directly from the valve to the Easytouch board. No relay involved. I assumed the Easytouch powered 24V to this connector (and the Intellitouch did also), but now that I understand it's 24AC, that seems less likely.

 

[Ahultin]

You will need to pull 24v from the transformer (potentially jeopardizing warranty) or do as I did and install a dedicated transformer power thru an aux relay. Intellicenter feature controlled autofill with sprinkler valve

 

[Jimrahbe]

G,

Let me see if I fully understand..

In your old EasyTouch you had a two wire connection from your sprinkler valve directly to the J15/ Aux7 relay connection on the EasyTouch's main card. And the Aux 7 "relay" was not used at all. And.. when you turned on the Aux7 circuit, the sprinkler valve worked. Is that correct?? Who installed this connection on the original EasyTouch??

If true, then one of two things are likely..

1. Your sprinkler valve also works off of 24 VDC, and your IntelliCenter does not have the current to drive your sprinkler valve, or your new IntelliCenter is bad..

2. Your original wiring was connected to one of the valve driver connections and not J15... Valves work off of 24 Volts AC. But.. the valve connections have three pins, even though to drive the sprinkler valve, you would only need two of them.

If this were my system I would want to know if the Aux 7 relay driver output was working or not. I'd compare the DC voltage of a known working Aux output with the output from Aux 7.. It could be that the Aux 7 output is bad.. Then the question would be... was it just bad, or did connecting it to the sprinkler valve blow it up?

I have a sprinkler valve, but I use an separate 24 VAC transformer to power it via the contacts of an Aux relay.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Flying Tivo]

The Easytouch connected to this same valve using connector J15/aux7. I marked the wires before removing them. The 2 wires ran directly from the valve to the Easytouch board. No relay involved. I assumed the Easytouch powered 24V to this connector (and the Intellitouch did also), but now that I understand it's 24AC, that seems less likely.

How far is your valve? DC voltage wont run long distances and voltage will drop. I just think this is impossible, if you put such a load on the 24VDC side, the main board would be resetting itself from low voltage. If you have pictures please post the wiring in the main board please.

 

[Gudhjem]

In your old EasyTouch you had a two wire connection from your sprinkler valve directly to the J15/ Aux7 relay connection on the EasyTouch's main card. And the Aux 7 "relay" was not used at all. And.. when you turned on the Aux7 circuit, the sprinkler valve worked. Is that correct?? Who installed this connection on the original EasyTouch??

I don't know what the Aux 7 "relay" is. No relay in the power panel was being used. Other than that, all correct. It was installed by the pool builder in 2017 -- an established builder that has been in the business for decades.

If true, then one of two things are likely..

1. Your sprinkler valve also works off of 24 VDC, and your IntelliCenter does not have the current to drive your sprinkler valve, or your new IntelliCenter is bad..

2. Your original wiring was connected to one of the valve driver connections and not J15... Valves work off of 24 Volts AC. But.. the valve connections have three pins, even though to drive the sprinkler valve, you would only need two of them.

#1, I am reading no power when I "turn on" aux 7. That was why I was wondering if I programmed it incorrectly.
#2, I am confident the connection was to J15. I marked all of the wires before removing them and, as you say, the connector does not fit the valve connection (3-pin, the connector is 2-pin).

If this were my system I would want to know if the Aux 7 relay driver output was working or not. I'd compare the DC voltage of a known working Aux output with the output from Aux 7.. It could be that the Aux 7 output is bad.. Then the question would be... was it just bad, or did connecting it to the sprinkler valve blow it up?

I will check that.

I have a sprinkler valve, but I use an separate 24 VAC transformer to power it via the contacts of an Aux relay.

I have seen a write-up on this board for that. The panel look pretty tight, but I suppose that could work. I thought it would not be necessary since it definitely was not with the Easytouch.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Gudhjem]

How far is your valve? DC voltage wont run long distances and voltage will drop. I just think this is impossible, if you put such a load on the 24VDC side, the main board would be resetting itself from low voltage. If you have pictures please post the wiring in the main board please.

It's about a 10 foot run. That's a bit shorter than the run to the actuated valves and the pumps. Attached is a pic of the board. I don't think there's much to see here, but if you spot something, happy to hear about it. Note that the Aux 7 connector is not plugged in in this picture.

 

[Gudhjem]

If this were my system I would want to know if the Aux 7 relay driver output was working or not. I'd compare the DC voltage of a known working Aux output with the output from Aux 7.. It could be that the Aux 7 output is bad.. Then the question would be... was it just bad, or did connecting it to the sprinkler valve blow it up?

Aux 7 shows no voltage when turned on. "Turned on" means assinging a circuit to Aux 7 and toggling it on in the app. There is stray voltage of 400-500 mv, which does not vary with turning it on.

I tested another aux connector -- aux 3 used for the pool lights -- and it shows 26v when turned on.

 

[Jimrahbe]

G,

Sounds like the driver chip for the Aux 7 port has a bad output..

I have never seen an IntelliCenter circuit card, so let's see what Tom has to say.. Calling @ogdento

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ogdento]

What is the personality card that you're using, looks like it's an i8P or i8PS? (I'm asking because Aux7 would be on the personality card since the main i5P board only has Aux1-4). Unfortunately - and unlike the Easytouch/Intellitouch that smartly have socketed relay driver chips - the Intellicenter personality boards have tiny surface mount chips soldered to the underside of the board (I don't have an i8xx card but it's probably a UN2003A).

If you can't do anything with Aux7 - and you're sure it's programmed correctly - then it could be the driver like Jim said... but if that IS the issue, the only fixes are to unsolder and replace the driver or pony up an obscene amount for a new personality card. I would use a different Aux port if you've got one available, or you can PM me if you need to get the card fixed.

Also, if anybody measures voltages on the Aux (and other) connectors by jamming the multimeter probes into the connector, it's really easy to short out the pins with your probes and damage the driver. To prevent shorting the connector pins, I plug a relay cable into that Aux7 port and test the voltage on the relay cable... I say "relay cable" because I've removed the relay from it altogether - but you could just leave the relay on it.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Also, if anybody measures voltages on the Aux (and other) connectors by jamming the multimeter probes into the connector, it's really easy to short out the pins with your probes and damage the driver. To prevent shorting the connector pins, I plug a relay cable into that Aux7 port and test the voltage on the relay cable... I say "relay cable" because I've removed the relay from it altogether - but you could just leave the relay on it.

Tom,

Excellent advice....

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Flying Tivo]

I tested another aux connector -- aux 3 used for the pool lights -- and it shows 26v when turned on.

I highly suspect that there was too much load for the driver chip. I would definitely not connect it the same way. Instead use the relay how it was meant to be used.

 

[Gudhjem]

What is the personality card that you're using, looks like it's an i8P or i8PS? (I'm asking because Aux7 would be on the personality card since the main i5P board only has Aux1-4). Unfortunately - and unlike the Easytouch/Intellitouch that smartly have socketed relay driver chips - the Intellicenter personality boards have tiny surface mount chips soldered to the underside of the board (I don't have an i8xx card but it's probably a UN2003A).

It's an i10PS (see pics).

Also, if anybody measures voltages on the Aux (and other) connectors by jamming the multimeter probes into the connector, it's really easy to short out the pins with your probes and damage the driver. To prevent shorting the connector pins, I plug a relay cable into that Aux7 port and test the voltage on the relay cable... I say "relay cable" because I've removed the relay from it altogether - but you could just leave the relay on it.

Thanks for the tip. I test it as you say (see pic).

If you can't do anything with Aux7 - and you're sure it's programmed correctly - then it could be the driver like Jim said... but if that IS the issue, the only fixes are to unsolder and replace the driver or pony up an obscene amount for a new personality card. I would use a different Aux port if you've got one available, or you can PM me if you need to get the card fixed.

I have a couple aux ports free, so tried it using Aux 9. Aux 9 shows 26 volts when I turn it on, but it also did not move the valve. Worse, Aux9 is now stuck on. It is powered with 26 volts even when I toggle it off (in app and at panel), and even when I disconnect and reconnect system power. I don't see or smell any evidence of a short on the personality card.

So it seems whatever draw the valve is putting on the circuit is indeed too much for the Intellicenter to handle, even though it was not for the EasyTouch, which did it for 6 years. There does not seem to be much point in trying another aux port (I have one good free one left). I'll need to go with the 24VAC transformer as suggested (or use a hose...).

Any other ideas?
Should I be concerned with Aux9 being powered all the time?
Thanks.

 

[ogdento]

I think you are burning out your relay drivers by trying to run the valve straight from the aux port.

What the others have been saying is you have to power a relay with that port - i.e. the aux port should energize a relay coil, not a valve - and the relay should switch power to the valve.

I can't explain why it would have worked fine on the easytouch... If you truly didn't have another relay running the valve, I guess it's possible that even though they are rated for the same current, the old drivers were physically much larger and maybe they could dissipate enough heat to keep them alive

 

[Gudhjem]

Thanks for the reply. I'll probably install a transformer so I can use a relay. I have some questions about that, but will pose them in the thread about that modification instead of here.

Would you be concerned about the aux port being always on now?

 

[Jimrahbe]

G,

If you don't plug anything into the Aux 9 connection, it will not make any difference if it is on or off.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Gudhjem]

If you don't plug anything into the Aux 9 connection, it will not make any difference if it is on or off.

Thanks.

 

[ogdento]

I wouldn't worry about it unless you have problems with the 18vac low voltage breaker tripping. Just don't plug anything into it

If you are still worried, you could check to see how much current your board is drawing.

 

[Gudhjem]

I wouldn't worry about it unless you have problems with the 18vac low voltage breaker tripping. Just don't plug anything into it

If you are still worried, you could check to see how much current your board is drawing.

Got it. Thanks for all the help here.