Adding a heat pump is my wiring/breaker sufficient?

[redturboeclipse]

Have a pool built in 2021

Running latest Omni logic automation from Hayward with built in salt control. With breaker in pool panel. 15 amp See pic

It is being fed from 100 amp breaker from main house panel , see pic

My pump is a Hayward 2.70 THP VS has a breaker in pool panel 40 amp

I have 3 Hayward colorlogic LEDs connected to Hayward Low voltage pool transformer, that has a breaker on the panel 15 amp

Salt cell indicates 5 amp max

I want to add an aquacal tropical t115

TropiCal | AquaCal Swimming Pool Heat Pump

Experience the next generation of pool heating with the New TropiCal Heat Pump, AquaCal’s latest advancement in technology. Equipped with full inverter technolo

www.aquacal.com

Minimum circuit amp 38.2

Would this setup cause problems with everything running ?

One installer didn't even question it, another recommends I go with smaller heat pump as this might be max and trip breaker with salt, pump, and heat pump all running.

Thoughts?

 

[Ahultin]

2 different questions
1. Is it likely to work
2. is it NEC compliant
Re #1 , it ,right work but you are maxing out the main circuit breaker with no additional headroom! Will the contractor installing it warrant the install?
re #2 ,
Rough of nec load calc would be total wattage x 1 (4 or more fixed connected devices) + 25% of highest load.
Pump 2013 watts (2.7hp to watts)
Light transformer 300 watts
Controller 50 watts ( couldnt find the specs on this)
Heat pump 8740 watts (38 amps 230v)
11,103 watts + (8470x.25) = 13288
13288x1.25= 16610 adjusted wattage
16610/240= 69.21 ~70 amp min breaker at sub panel #4 thhn feeder

 

[redturboeclipse]

2 different questions
1. Is it likely to work
2. is it NEC compliant
Re #1 , it ,right work but you are maxing out the main circuit breaker with no additional headroom! Will the contractor installing it warrant the install?
re #2 ,
Rough of nec load calc would be total wattage x 1 (4 or more fixed connected devices) + 25% of highest load.
Pump 2013 watts (2.7hp to watts)
Light transformer 300 watts
Controller 50 watts ( couldnt find the specs on this)
Heat pump 8740 watts (38 amps 230v)
11,103 watts + (8470x.25) = 13288
13288x1.25= 16610 adjusted wattage
16610/240= 69.21 ~70 amp min breaker at sub panel #4 thhn feeder

Thank you for doing some of that math. I'm super dumb with this kind of stuff. I see you also added the 25% to highest load with the heat pump

You mentioned 70amp min at sub panel, but I currently have it on a 100 amp I should be ok?

 

[Ahultin]

Thank you for doing some of that math. I'm super dumb with this kind of stuff. I see you also added the 25% to highest load with the heat pump

You mentioned 70amp min at sub panel, but I currently have it on a 100 amp I should be ok?

70 amp 2 pole to the pool, you currently have 50 amp 2 pole (for reference your pump is on a 20 amp 2 pole, not a 40)

 

[ajw22]

There is no reason for the HP high voltage to run through the Hayward panel. The Hayward panel only needs the HP low voltage controls connected to it.

You need to have a new 50 amp circuit run from your electrical panel to the HP. It is the same wiring method as an AC condenser. Electrical panel to a maintenance disconnect to the HP.

 

[Ahultin]

There is no reason for the HP high voltage to run through the Hayward panel. The Hayward panel only needs the HP low voltage controls connected to it.

You need to have a new 50 amp circuit run from your electrical panel to the HP. It is the same wiring method as an AC condenser. Electrical panel to a maintenance disconnect to the HP.

Depends on the location of the main panel in relation to the pool equipment. OP is in California so highly unlikely that they have a basement or crawl space. From the stucco and Spanish tile roof I'd guess this is a newer home and the main is on the opposite side front of the house, making it a very spendy electric run.

Is the 3/4 conduit directly under the hayward panel the main feed?

 

[redturboeclipse]

Is the 3/4 conduit directly under the hayward panel the main feed?

No, the house was already prewired and the main feed is directly behind the hayward panel in the wall.

The main house breaker is just right of the panel down that side yard about 25 ft away

 

[Ahultin]

No, the house was already prewired and the main feed is directly behind the hayward panel in the wall.

The main house breaker is just right of the panel down that side yard about 25 ft away

Then Allen's suggestion would be the ticket, do you have open breaker spaces in the main panel? If so they can pop some emt conduit out under the panel and along the side of the house to an ac disconnect then some liquid tite from the disconnect to the hp. It will add some cost to the install but at 25' should not be significant in the scheme of things.

 

[redturboeclipse]

Then Allen's suggestion would be the ticket, do you have open breaker spaces in the main panel? If so they can pop some emt conduit out under the panel and along the side of the house to an ac disconnect then some liquid tite from the disconnect to the hp. It will add some cost to the install but at 25' should not be significant in the scheme of things.

See my ghetto diagram
I gave an electrician the specs of heat pump:
kW Input: 5.9
Voltage/Hz/Phase: 208-230/60/1
Minimum Circuit Ampacity: 38.2
Maximum Fuse Size: 60

He said 60 amp with #6 wire

So is there a breaker at the main house panel and then another at the hayward panel?
With my diagram the new circuit goes to an AC disconnect, then from there a liquid conduit to the hayward with another breaker?

 

[Ahultin]

So is there a breaker at the main house panel and then another at the hayward panel?
With my diagram the new circuit goes to an AC disconnect, then from there a liquid conduit to the hayward with another breaker?

No need to go to the Hayward panel with it. 60a breaker in main panel, emt to an ac disconnect, liquid tite whip to the heat pump.
You will then have a low voltage control wire from the Hayward panel to the heat pump

 

[redturboeclipse]

No need to go to the Hayward panel with it. 60a breaker in main panel, emt to an ac disconnect, liquid tite whip to the heat pump.
You will then have a low voltage control wire from the Hayward panel to the heat pump

Thanks so much for all your help and quick replies. I likely will be going this route. But may just try to see if it is capable of handling it on the existing 50 amp double breaker. just for experiment

Like you said in the beginning it "might" work and some installers also told me the same as the biggest draw is the initial kick of the heat pump, but after that it should be ok and only way is to see if it trips during that initial start up.

I'll keep you posted if I do this experiment just so its on record here in case it works and others fall in the same predicament, but I may not even and just do the new circuit.

 

[Ahultin]

So long as the licensed contractor installing will warranty the install, go for it
Do you know what size wire feeds the breaker? Tripping the breaker would present only a nuisance, slowly overheating the wire would create a fire hazard...in the wall
The other possibility is stressing the electrical components in the hp, think brown out conditions. How much does the electric run add to the heatpump install? I'm guessing your +-5k for the heat pump and maybe and extra 500 for the electric run? Cheap insurance?

 

[redturboeclipse]

So long as the licensed contractor installing will warranty the install, go for it
Do you know what size wire feeds the breaker? Tripping the breaker would present only a nuisance, slowly overheating the wire would create a fire hazard...in the wall
The other possibility is stressing the electrical components in the hp, think brown out conditions. How much does the electric run add to the heatpump install? I'm guessing your +-5k for the heat pump and maybe and extra 500 for the electric run? Cheap insurance?

I ended up getting a new circuit put in, its a 60amp double pole breaker in the main house panel, ran conduit close by the pool panel into a disconnect (not fused)

While the main panel was open, i did see the wire that the main pool panel was being fed from, and it was a #6. So I guess I couldve increased the breaker to a 60amp double pole from the 50 and gave me a bit more head room

But I guess that trial wont be needed anymore. Unless I still do and then I have a new circuit to run a hot tub lol--i kid.

Thanks again for all your insight and information. I really learned a lot from your replies.

 

[redturboeclipse]

So long as the licensed contractor installing will warranty the install, go for it
Do you know what size wire feeds the breaker? Tripping the breaker would present only a nuisance, slowly overheating the wire would create a fire hazard...in the wall
The other possibility is stressing the electrical components in the hp, think brown out conditions. How much does the electric run add to the heatpump install? I'm guessing your +-5k for the heat pump and maybe and extra 500 for the electric run? Cheap insurance?

Well im like a scary movie where there is one last jump scare lol

Guy installing pool pump said he wont be installing any isolation/bypass and just a check valve.

I somewhat insisted I would like one put in, so i can bypass the heater during winter hwen im not using it.. just in case water chemistry is off etc etc

I see 2 methods, with a 3 way valve or 3 ball valves

Which do you think i should push for or is better or doesnt matter? Im sure it will add to the cost and im thinking 1 3 way valve is cheaper than 3 ball valves, but the latter seems for true isolation and bypass

 

[Ahultin]

Use the three way jandy /check valve/tee. Your omni pl appears to support 4 valve actuators so it leaves the option open , should you desire, to automate the heater bypass.