Acid soak/bath questions

Apr 27, 2014
19
Houston, TX
I recently had an acid soak/bath performed by my pool builder, at our request due to calcium buildup over the last 1.5 years. Since I maintained the pool from 3rd month until now, the scale buildup was a result at least partially to mostly from not managing the water balance.

Pool is 10,000 ish gallons, quartzscapes pool, and stonescapes seat, sundeck and spa.
When we started the process, the pool quartzscapes felt mostly smooth as expected, and the stonescapes was an aggregate feel.
Now the pool feels mostly like the stonescapes, as the aggregate is mostly exposed.

The first day the pool builder isolated the spa and heater, and added 28 gallons of muriatic acid.
The following day builder asked how it looked, i said it looked great reverse the acid process. He added (unknown quantity) of sodium bicarb, a sequestering agent, and a half gallon? jug of (pool startup) not sure what it was.

My questions are.
Since i tested the water after he left, and the PH seemed well below 6.8 still, shouldnt he have added sodium carbonate to bring up PH as well?

I tested multiple days PH and TA. and for 8 days PH was well below 6.8 and TA was 0-10,few more days builder added sodium bicarb, on the 9th day i finally had a PH of 7 and TA of 90. FC was 0-5 throughout, and CH was so high I could not measure it at one point, my question here is, was the PH andTA being that low continuing to eat the plaster and plumbing?

In the spa since it the only part i have sat in sice the job there is a good bit of aggregate sitting on the bottom of the spa from the stonescapes, and i have noticed on the spa overflow it seems to be missing some mortar in a couple places. My question is how much aggregate should come off of a stonescapes surface with an acid soak/bath, and should mortar be missing?

Now that i have asked my builder to take action with the rough pool surface he is telling me he can drain the pool and polish the roughness out instead of replastering, is this an action that works successfully, or looks good?

Overall i am really concerned about the integrity of the plaster at this point. The day the pool builder came to neutralize the acid, the surface felt pretty good, a few days later you could wipe some aggregate off with your hand, but after a week and brushing, the aggregate is really all that you seems to feel.

Any ideas or opinions welcomed, and sorry for such a long post.

thank you.
 
28 GALLONS!?!?!?

That would have lowered well into the negatives and the pH around 1.

Unfortunately acid will not make the surface smooth. It may even the color and dissolve scale but it also dissolves the plaster binder that holds the aggregate in place.

Polishing the surface will help but that will also remove more plaster and further reduce the lifespan of the surface.
 
I was fairly shocked at the amount of acid too. I watched them pour 5 cases in, and i was pretty sure I saw them carry off 7 empty cases. Yes, there is aggregate from the pool and spa off of the pool surface, I would say in total that i have seen in the filter and pulled out by hand, over 3-4 cups of aggregate.
 
That would have lowered the TA by over 1400ppm and the pH into the -80s.
The pH can't go that low. PoolMath might give that result, but it's not accurate. The pH won't be negative. It would probably be about 1.55.

It would take about 1,000 gallons of 31.45% hydrochloric acid to get to a ph of 0.

The ph of full strength acid is about -1. That's about as low as possible.
 
pH was probably more like 1.64 because you'd have to correct for the small amount of acid required to neutralize the TA of the water first. If you assume 100ppm TA, then it takes about 200ppm worth of hydrogen ions to reduce the TA to zero (TA measured in calcium carbonate units so it takes 2 moles of H to convert one mole of carbonate to aqueous CO2). Even then, once all of the TA of the water was gone, the acid would react with the calcium carbonate in the plaster fairly quickly and probably not allow the pH to get as low as 1.6....But I'm being pedantic....

Brian and James have driven home the point that the PB very greatly overestimated the amount of acid needed to do a No-Drain acid wash of the surface. He should of added just enough acid to reduce the TA to zero and then probably one gallon more or so. Then the pool should have been brushed vigorously and left for 24 hours to see if all the scale disappeared. Once the scale was gone, then the TA should have been restored with baking soda right away. Baking soda is the correct chemical to use (at least the PB got that right) because soda ash (or washing soda, aka, sodium carbonate) would have raised the pH too quickly and the carbonate would have reacted with the calcium in the water forming calcium carbonate. This would have either clouded the water or cause the scale to reappear on the surfaces of the pool. Bringing the TA (and pH along with it) up slowly using baking soda is the correct approach.

As for what to do, well, this is tricky. The original issue was caused by the OP not keeping the water properly balanced with respect to scaling and so the PB can hardly be blamed for that. BUT, the PB definitely screwed up the pH/TA calculations somewhere and used waaaaaay too much acid. If I were in the OPs shoes, I would probably let the PB polish the pool as long as it was being paid for by the PB. However, I would also broach the idea of a replaster (or hey, why not go with AquaBright coating and no replaster necessary!!) and likely offer to split the cost 50/50 though I doubt the PB would agree to it....

Good luck, let us know how it goes...
 
Many thanks to all for the insights. I agree I caused the initial issue of the scaling. I can learn from that and will do better at watching ALL aspects of water management.

If anyone believes the integrity of the plaster is at risk, I would like to hear that opinion. Shortened lifespan is what I get out of it for sure, the amount of time shortened is what I am still unsure of.

I will also look into the AquaBright coating. The PB did state without coming to put his hands on or look at the pool we don't need a replaster, maybe I should confirm that with the NPT distributor.
 
Good idea. Maybe NPT might be willing to send out a rep to look at the pool and give you a outside party opinion. Did the PB do the acid wash or did the plaster applicator do it?
 

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My pool builder is trying to get this corrected through NPT as a warranty issue with the plaster? He says he is doing me a favor since I caused the issue with the scaling of the walls, he is stating that the calcium buildup was below the surface of the plaster and the plaster had to be taken down to get rid of the calcium.

The questions I have are
Can the calcium be removed without taking the plaster/cement down so far that it almost completely exposes the aggregate?
With 10000ish gallons of water and 28 gallons of acid, and a 24 hr soak, how much sodium bicarbonate does it take to fully neutralize this amount of acid?

Many thanks.

It seems to me that either it was exposed to too much acid and ate the plaster/cement, or it was not fully neutralized. If either of these are the case it does not seem to me this is an NPT plaster warranty issue as much as it is a PB issue.
 
It takes about 6.9 lbs of bicarb per gallon to neutralize 1 gallon of acid.

If you started with a TA of 100 and added 28 gallons of acid, it would take about 193 lbs of bicarb to get back to a TA of 100.
 
hate to be the one to state this but, I would give him the opportunity to replaster or call a lawyer,

while he may have had good intenions , one must understand that when you apply an acidic mixture to concrete / plaster surface you can remove the cement from the aggregate leaving the surface very rough , so depending on the strength & how long it is in contact with the surface will determine the outcome.
 
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