ABSOLUTE BEGINNER

[BDY]

You can safely go up to SLAM level and still swim, which is 40% of CYA.

When testing and dosing your chlorine it never hurts to run above target - but it hurts a LOT to fall below Min and play roulette with an algae bloom. Many people prefer to run above target as long as they are below SLAM level. your FC usage will vary daily because of weather and bather load. For pool parties the recommendation is add some FC before and add some after, esp if it was a large or all day party.

 

[Newdude]

I am testing more than I need to, but I am trying to learn how things change. Im understanding a bit more each day.

That's HOW you do it !!!!! A little more effort up front puts you on autopilot down the road. Well done.

Should I go higher than the target suggests just to be safe? ..or is the high end of target range a hard max?

Target is my *minimum*. You are safe up to SLAM level and minimum (Swampville) is only a skootch below target. Study the chart above to see what I mean.

In the peak of the summer you may lose close to or more FC per day than that CYAs target allows for. You need to adjust the daily target to meet the daily loss. In the spring/fall mid target will work great with less loss. Right now everyone needs high target or more.

I was not able to test as often today and my FC had dropped to 2.5 when I got home. I corrected it immediately, but I’m not sure how long I was out of range. Is this something that could cause a problem

Below minimum (or really anywhere near it, because the entire pool might vary a little) is where algae can start to grow. Time spent there is no bueno, and obviously more time there is less bueno than that.

You did good stepping in. Adjust your targets higher going forward, and reassess as necessary.

 

[ajbmtb]

That's HOW you do it !!!!! A little more effort up front puts you on autopilot down the road. Well done.


Target is my *minimum*. You are safe up to SLAM level and minimum (Swampville) is only a skootch below target. Study the chart above to see what I mean.

In the peak of the summer you may lose close to or more FC per day than that CYAs target allows for. You need to adjust the daily target to meet the daily loss. In the spring/fall mid target will work great with less loss. Right now everyone needs high target or more.

Below minimum (or really anywhere near it, because the entire pool might vary a little) is where algae can start to grow. Time spent there is no bueno, and obviously more time there is less bueno than that.

You did good stepping in. Adjust your targets higher going forward, and reassess as necessary.

I need all the help I can get on this one. I am afraid I have made a terrible mistake. When concrete was being poured around my pool, a significant amount was dumped into the pool via a pump truck by mistake. I got as much as possible out with the dolphin and then started using the manual vac. My pump situation is a mess right now. I know very little about pumps and even less about temporary pumps. I have attached pics of my temporary set up. Will be digging footers in the near future, possibly as early as tomorrow. I did not want to flood this entire area and I wasn’t entirely sure where the waste would go if I vacuumed to waste ..so I vacuumed on filter. My basket is full of concrete/gravel and there is a giant air bubble in the top that I don’t think was there before. PSI was normally 15 and is now about 25. I have read that this means I need to backwash. Does anyone know if I will flood my yard when I do this? Need some guidance here before I have a major meltdown!

 

[Newdude]

Does anyone know if I will flood my yard when I do this?

The two likely choice are it is run to a sewer clean out or to a spot in the yard which can then drain freely. Turn the pump off and select waste. Turn the pump back on and see if you can locate the geyser. If the area you're concerned about stays dry, you don't even need to find it. Lol.

 

[ajbmtb]

The two likely choice are it is run to a sewer clean out or to a spot in the yard which can then drain freely. Turn the pump off and select waste. Turn the pump back on and see if you can locate the geyser. If the area you're concerned about stays dry, you don't even need to find it. Lol.

Is this something that could cause major damage? Do I need to get out there and backwash the pump tonight or can this wait until tomorrow when I can avoid doing it in the dark? I have never backwashed before and all I know is what I have read in Pool School. I currently have one skimmer “sucking” and one “pushing” water. The one that is sucking water in does not seem to be working right now. At this point, I don’t even care if I flood the yard if this is going to cause a problem with my brand new pump. I will do whatever you recommend and delay the construction if need be.

 

[Newdude]

Do I need to get out there and backwash the pump tonight

Yes. Or shut it off.

At this point, I don’t even care if I flood the yard if this is going to cause a problem with my brand new pump

If the backwash runs anywhere near where you're concerned about, it will be a literal flood and you can shut the pump off immediately to save the area. Then leave the pump off to save the pump.

 

[ajbmtb]

Yes. Or shut it off.

If the backwash runs anywhere near where you're concerned about, it will be a literal flood and you can shut the pump off immediately to save the area. Then leave the pump off to save the pump.

Well. I feel certain that did not go how it was supposed to. There is no way to turn the pump on/off except for unplugging it. Unplugged it, instantly heard the sound of water gurgling, moved to backwash, then plugged back up. Water started shooting out with some serious force directly toward the side of the house. Tried to wait it out but got afraid this would cause even more problems. Unplugged the pump and left it off. Sounds like water is leaving the pump and the basket is only about half full. I didn’t even attempt to open the door. I feel pretty sure this is going to require a professional. I live in the middle of absolutely no where and if “pool 911” does exist, we don’t have it around here. Hopefully, the guy who installed the pool can come out tomorrow and help me. Is there anything else I need to do in the meantime to keep this nightmare of a situation from getting any worse?

 

[Newdude]

There is no way to turn the pump on/off except for unplugging it

That's a temp setup drawback.

Unplugged it, instantly heard the sound of water gurgling,

Not a problem, although there is a small leak somewhere to allow air in the system.

Water started shooting out with some serious force directly toward the side of the house.

A pipe will eventually be plumbed into that port. They likely weren't expecting you to backwash so soon.

Sounds like water is leaving the pump and the basket is only about half full.

It'll prime itself when the time comes. But the PB needs to come out and either install a backwash pipe/hose, or change the sand.

Is there anything else I need to do in the meantime to keep this nightmare of a situation from getting any worse?

Nope. It is what it is and if the pump is off, it won't burn itself up with no flow.

 

[sande005]

As you found out, pumps can move a lot of water! When I had my sand filter, I ran a pipe to a corner of the yard, that I didn't mind flooding. I had a stub on the discharge point (mine was off of the selector valve) and then used one of those temporary rubber couplings for pipe repair from the hardware store to the long pipe, so I could attach other hoses to the output, if needed, to send it other places. Note that some localities have rules about discharging on the ground, or into a storm sewer. Mine doesn't.

For the pump, when you turned it off, with the waste valve open, air got sucked back in as some of the water drained back to the pool. Happens all the time. You "lost prime". Have the pool guy show you how to recover, as each setup may be a little different. No harm, as long as you don't run the pump for long periods without water in the system.

At this point, just leave it off until daylight. You can then at least get the rocks out of all the baskets.

Can't guess as to how detrimental wet fine cement will be to the system. Might begin to set and glue the sand in the filter together (might be "chunky" but not a solid block of cement), might stay fine enough to not be an issue. Have your pool guy evaluate. Sand is replaceable, and not a big expense, if it comes to that. Cement may settle and harden in other places (pipes, heater core, on the pool itself, etc.), that the pool guy should evaluate. Pretty impossible for you do to anything to flush it all out on your own, especially with an incomplete setup. You did much more than many would/could do.

Since this doesn't sound like a DIY project, the installers and concrete guy should have insurance to cover the mistake. Insurance should pay to replace a lot of the equipment if it comes to that, especially if your pool guy has any doubts about how "like new" it will be anymore. Hard to forecast at this point how good/bad the situation is. Stick to your guns and demand that they get it back to 100% "like it was". You've done what you can to help them out, but they are supposed to be the "pros". Hope they are an upstanding company, and you don't have to go legal on them!

 

[ajbmtb]

As you found out, pumps can move a lot of water! When I had my sand filter, I ran a pipe to a corner of the yard, that I didn't mind flooding. I had a stub on the discharge point (mine was off of the selector valve) and then used one of those temporary rubber couplings for pipe repair from the hardware store to the long pipe, so I could attach other hoses to the output, if needed, to send it other places. Note that some localities have rules about discharging on the ground, or into a storm sewer. Mine doesn't.

For the pump, when you turned it off, with the waste valve open, air got sucked back in as some of the water drained back to the pool. Happens all the time. You "lost prime". Have the pool guy show you how to recover, as each setup may be a little different. No harm, as long as you don't run the pump for long periods without water in the system.

At this point, just leave it off until daylight. You can then at least get the rocks out of all the baskets.

Can't guess as to how detrimental wet fine cement will be to the system. Might begin to set and glue the sand in the filter together (might be "chunky" but not a solid block of cement), might stay fine enough to not be an issue. Have your pool guy evaluate. Sand is replaceable, and not a big expense, if it comes to that. Cement may settle and harden in other places (pipes, heater core, on the pool itself, etc.), that the pool guy should evaluate. Pretty impossible for you do to anything to flush it all out on your own, especially with an incomplete setup. You did much more than many would/could do.

Since this doesn't sound like a DIY project, the installers and concrete guy should have insurance to cover the mistake. Insurance should pay to replace a lot of the equipment if it comes to that, especially if your pool guy has any doubts about how "like new" it will be anymore. Hard to forecast at this point how good/bad the situation is. Stick to your guns and demand that they get it back to 100% "like it was". You've done what you can to help them out, but they are supposed to be the "pros". Hope they are an upstanding company, and you don't have to go legal on them!

Thank you for the support! Fingers crossed!

 

[sande005]

And... I typed without thinking a lot. So the important point - How much concrete was dumped in the pool before they realized their mistake?
A gallon or two will likely not have much effect (except a filter that needs backwashing). A wheelbarrow load or many more, might mean a major replacement/rebuild situation.
There's a lot of water in a pool to dilute the concrete mix, which is mostly small rocks and sand that are non-issues. It's the cement in the mix that may be the problem. Beyond what is in your skimmer/pump baskets, I'd try to see what may or may not be around the main drains. Is there any noticeable? If something is there, can you easily move it around with a pool brush, or has it hardened into anything from an immoveable thin coating to solid lumps? Ditto for the rest of the pool, especially near the "dump site". You obviously don't want concrete, whether "stains" or lumps, permanently visible in your new pool forever.

If it was on the "larger amount side":
Many plumbers have remote cameras that can be fed through pipes to actually see what may or may not be in them. Check your Dolphin for leftovers - cleanable by hand, or stuck on.
The pool guy can easily take apart the major parts of the pump , filter, multiport valve to check for issues. The more evidence you find, anywhere, the more concerned you should be. Prior photos seem to indicate the heater was still in the box - good! Otherwise, it may at least need a new radiator core if there is any evidence in other places. Me? I might accept some small, very thin coating on the inside of the pipes (like a coat of paint). But no signs of it in the filter or any of its parts (including inside the pipes in the filter). Ditto for any of the other equipment - pump, heater, SWCG (if you have one), Dolphin, etc., etc. If any doubt, make them replace. "It should be good enough" probably isn't.

 

[ajbmtb]

And... I typed without thinking a lot. So the important point - How much concrete was dumped in the pool before they realized their mistake?
A gallon or two will likely not have much effect (except a filter that needs backwashing). A wheelbarrow load or many more, might mean a major replacement/rebuild situation.
There's a lot of water in a pool to dilute the concrete mix, which is mostly small rocks and sand that are non-issues. It's the cement in the mix that may be the problem. Beyond what is in your skimmer/pump baskets, I'd try to see what may or may not be around the main drains. Is there any noticeable? If something is there, can you easily move it around with a pool brush, or has it hardened into anything from an immoveable thin coating to solid lumps? Ditto for the rest of the pool, especially near the "dump site". You obviously don't want concrete, whether "stains" or lumps, permanently visible in your new pool forever.

If it was on the "larger amount side":
Many plumbers have remote cameras that can be fed through pipes to actually see what may or may not be in them. Check your Dolphin for leftovers - cleanable by hand, or stuck on.
The pool guy can easily take apart the major parts of the pump , filter, multiport valve to check for issues. The more evidence you find, anywhere, the more concerned you should be. Prior photos seem to indicate the heater was still in the box - good! Otherwise, it may at least need a new radiator core if there is any evidence in other places. Me? I might accept some small, very thin coating on the inside of the pipes (like a coat of paint). But no signs of it in the filter or any of its parts (including inside the pipes in the filter). Ditto for any of the other equipment - pump, heater, SWCG (if you have one), Dolphin, etc., etc. If any doubt, make them replace. "It should be good enough" probably isn't.

WARNING - THIS IS A RIDICULOUSLY LONG POST. PLEASE READ IT THOUGH - I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY FEEDBACK!

I wasn't here when the DEBACLE took place but my husband guessed 2-3 gallons of concrete. He brushed it around a bit after about an hour and it didn't seem to be hardening. He stopped brushing because he could feel the grit on the vinyl liner and was afraid he was doing more harm than good. A few hours later (as soon as the concrete guys said it was safe to walk on the fresh concrete) we threw the Dolphin in. It did an excellent job of picking up anything that seemed to be clumping but there was a thin layer on the entire deep end of the pool that looked like dust. The following day, I realized the Dolphin wasn't getting this. It was just stirring it up and it eventually settled back to the bottom. I ordered the ultra fine filters for my Dolphin but of course they haven't even shipped yet. On day 2 post debacle, I realized some of that dust was trying to clump and I was having to use a little more force to move it off the bottom - again, risking damage to the liner. This is when I made the (maybe not so wise) decision to use the manual vac. It sucked the dust up in no time and the pool looked TFP perfect. A few hours after I vacuumed, I went to get some water to test (about 8P by this time, just starting to get dark) and I realized there was no water moving. This temporary pump has to run 24/7 so I headed over to the pump and it was making all sorts of racket, psi had almost doubled, and basket was full of rocks. This is the exact moment I lost my entire mind and sprinted inside so I could beg Newdude for help. He stepped in, like always, as you can see in the thread.

That brings us to this morning. The pump was off all night. Pool guys apparently don't work on weekends in these parts. No answer at the shop and they weren't answering their cells either. My dad was able to come over this morning and help. He is an engineer/long time pool owner. He is also able to remain calm in situations that cause me to go absolutely bananas and I think this was the most helpful attribute he brought to the table today. He got the basket cleaned up, primed the pump, and backwashed the pump by letting water just fly toward the house. He held a shovel up against the brick so instead of pounding the house, the water hit the shovel and splashed/splattered in all directions. You could hear the gravel/cement/whatever was in there pinging off the shovel. There is no clear glass to see when water is running clear so we waited until there was no pinging, rinsed, and repeated until there were no pings. Put the pump back to filter and psi was back to normal. Somehow in all this, a bit of dust did get back into the pool. I think in the state of panic I was in, I probably turned the pump back to filter at some point. When all this was done, I added enough water to get back to the fill line on my skimmers and sat down and took my first full breath in over 12 hours.

The pool is very cloudy right now but that dust is already starting to settle on the bottom again. I'm going to throw my Dolphin back in soon and see what he can get. Hopefully, the pool installer will call soon or at least respond to my messages. It would be great if I could manually vacuum the dust to waste but my yard is already flooded and I would like to get a pipe plumbed into the waste port or at least a hose to divert this water away from my house. I have already ordered the ultra fine filters for the Dolphin - do you all think this will make any difference? If I keep the dust stirred up will skimmer eventually filter all of it out? I will keep an eye on the psi and repeat this redneck backwash process as much as I need to until I can get a professional out here.

There is nothing "stuck" around the main drains or the skimmers. There was some hardened cement around the inside of the skimmer but I was able to spray this with a hose and chisel it off with a screwdriver. It was above the water and no where near the basket. Looks like it splashed up there at some point and dried. The contractor who is starting on my garage/pool house next week has been in contact with a plumber that can send cameras into the pipes to be sure they are clear. He seemed to think that since this stuff has been underwater the entire time that even if it had tried to settle in there, it would eventually move on through. He thought it would be a good idea to check just to be safe though. It took A LOT more water than I expected to prime the pump this morning so I'm afraid I didn't have much water in the pipes overnight which would have given this stuff an opportunity to clump together. My thought process was that it may try to take up permanent residence in the pipes since it it wasn't completely submerged in water. I have no idea how any of this works though. If any of you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them. Should have some definite answers by Tuesday when the plumber gets here.

I certainly hope that this NEVER happens to anyone else; but if it does, maybe they will search Google, stumble over to TFP, and realize they need to be SURE THEY HAVE A WAY TO VACUUM TO WASTE before they end up in this same situation. Again, I can't thank y'all enough for all your help. My dad was absolutely blown away that I thought to unplug that pump when I realized something wasn't right. I tried to explain TFP to him but he can barely wrap his mind around the internet so I didn't get far with that. He did ask me to order him a TF-Pro though so I'll consider it a win!

 

[PoolStored]

Try the fine filters, that should help. You can also try to slowly brush the bottom toward the main drain, that may help pick up some of the sediment. Watch your filter pressure. When it rises 25%, backwash. Take a few of these and follow the instructions. You'll be fine. May take a while to clear the pool.

CapturePOP.JPG

• PoolStored
• Jun 12, 2023

 

[ajbmtb]

Try the fine filters, that should help. You can also try to slowly brush the bottom toward the main drain, that may help pick up some of the sediment. Watch your filter pressure. When it rises 25%, backwash. Take a few of these and follow the instructions. You'll be fine. May take a while to clear the pool.

CapturePOP.JPG

• PoolStored
• Jun 12, 2023

If I would've had a bottle last night, I would've tried to eat the entire thing - plastic bottle and all. Will start brushing toward the main drains in a few hours when more settles. Just got a text from the pool guy. He said using clarifier may clump the dust and help it sink the the bottom so the Dolphin could get everything out without putting this stuff back into the filter. I have read enough on here to know that clarifier is the devil in most cases. Would this be a special case where clarifier would be warranted? I am perfectly fine just waiting on this to clear without the clarifier if not, just want to be EXTRA sure I'm doing everything I can possibly do to keep my pool and equipment as safe as possible.

 

[PoolStored]

Would this be a special case where clarifier would be warranted?

Maybe. Maybe not. What type of filter do you have?

 

[ajbmtb]

Maybe. Maybe not. What type of filter do you have?

This is embarrassing, but I don't have a clue. All I knew about pools was how to get a tan til about 2 weeks ago. There are bags in the yard that say "filter sand". So I am guessing sand. Is there any way to tell by looking at the pump?

 

[PoolStored]

Take a pic of the filter and label with model number and post it.

 

[Jaked35]

I will let the experts continue to guide you as I'm still a bit of a greenhorn but it's a sand filter and I just wanted to jump in and say to never change the position of the multi port valve on top of your sand filter with the pump running or it will ruin it.

 

[ajbmtb]

I will let the experts continue to guide you as I'm still a bit of a greenhorn but it's a sand filter and I just wanted to jump in and say to never change the position of the multi port valve on top of your sand filter with the pump running or it will ruin it.

Thank you! Any time I changed the position, the pump was unplugged. I think I just put it over to filter without thinking when I meant to put it to backwash once. That seemed to be when the dust went back into the pool. May not have had anything to do with it though? There should be some kind of mandatory training before pool crews just walk off and leave crazy people with a pool. I figured having a pool would be a little extra work, but I did not realize how much. Thankfully, I enjoy learning about it and maintaining it so far. Otherwise, I would be in major trouble!

 

[ajbmtb]

Take a pic of the filter and label with model number and post it.

Almost positive it is a sand filter now. Attached some pics for you to check out. Searched model number and pulled up valve for sand filter.

While I was trying to find the model number, I realized I did have a window to watch the water while backwashing. Should it be full of water? Got a pic of it for you to check out too!