A&A Self Cleaning System Keeps Jamming

[brianjsw]

Hi everyone!

We have a low profile A&A in floor cleaning system. System worked for a couple years. Since then we have had to replace the gear kit twice. It’s jammed again less than three months after a full gear kit replacement and the pool tech said the gears were fine but the bottom shaft of the top impeller had “worn down”. This was causing the gears below to etch a circle in the plate of the top impeller.

The impeller was replaced and the system worked for three weeks. But now jammed again.

Pool tech seems out of ideas. I am not sure where to go from here. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Pressure at the cartridge filter is 22PSI which is about the same as it had been when the system was working reliably for years.

Thank you.

Brian

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Post pics of your equipment pad and the IFCS valve and gears.

@proavia may be able to help.

 

[proavia]

Welcome to TFP!

Are you the original owner?

By low profile, do you mean the water enters the water distribution valve from the side instead of the top?
Post a few pics of your equipment pad from a few different angle and of the water valve and gearset.

Tell us a bit more about your system by filling out your signature with pool, pool equipment (including manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info. This assists us in providing you help without needing to as you each time for this important information.

 

[brianjsw]

Welcome to TFP!

Are you the original owner?

By low profile, do you mean the water enters the water distribution valve from the side instead of the top?
Post a few pics of your equipment pad from a few different angle and of the water valve and gearset.

Tell us a bit more about your system by filling out your signature with pool, pool equipment (including manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info. This assists us in providing you help without needing to as you each time for this important information.

Welcome to TFP!

Are you the original owner?

By low profile, do you mean the water enters the water distribution valve from the side instead of the top?
Post a few pics of your equipment pad from a few different angle and of the water valve and gearset.

Tell us a bit more about your system by filling out your signature with pool, pool equipment (including manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info. This assists us in providing you help without needing to as you each time for this important information.

Thanks for the reply. I’m not the original owner. Owned this 20 year old pool for the last four years. First two years cleaning system behaved. No changes to the system pump since moving here.

Had the tech back out today, new impeller is already showing signs of wear and abrasion at the bottom of the shaft after only three weeks of use. He added another metal washer or two and asked me to monitor results.

Apologize that I didn’t think to get a photo of the impeller at the time. It showed some plastic chafing / warping at the bottom of the shaft just like the impeller we had to replace after three months of use.

Some photos attached. I noticed that the impeller plate tends to shimmy a bit back and forth while the unit is running as well

Often times kicking the side of the unit gently or power cycling the pump “unsticks” it but eventually even that stops working.

We also noted etching forming on the bottom of the impeller again.

 

[proavia]

With the new impeller in place, is there any slack between it and the two gears closest to the impeller?

How long does each zone run? If unsure, time it and let us know. You may need to adjust the water valve to allow the zones to cycle more slowly.

How many hours per day are you running the pump?

I'd suggest you set the Jandy valve for Skimmer / Main Drain to 75%-80% skimmer and only 20%-25% to main drain. This will provide more skimming so less "stuff" settles onn the pool floor and instead gets skimmer before it has a chance to settle.

 

[brianjsw]

With the new impeller in place, is there any slack between it and the two gears closest to the impeller?

How long does each zone run? If unsure, time it and let us know. You may need to adjust the water valve to allow the zones to cycle more slowly.

How many hours per day are you running the pump?

I'd suggest you set the Jandy valve for Skimmer / Main Drain to 75%-80% skimmer and only 20%-25% to main drain. This will provide more skimming so less "stuff" settles onn the pool floor and instead gets skimmer before it has a chance to settle.

Thanks. Have adjusted to prefer the water being taken in from the skimmer.

It looks like each zone runs for about one minute.

Next time it goes belly up and I have it open I will check for slack.

Pump is running about 12 hours per day right now. Noted that the install guide for these cleaning systems has a note not to attach a salt cell or chlorine feeder upstream from them. I hope that’s not actually a major problem as no easy way to replumb that here since the cleaning system is on the other side of the yard from the rest of the pool equipment.

 

[proavia]

Great - each zone should run for about a minute or so.

I have a SWG upstream of my water valve and no issues.
My neighbor had a tab feeder upstream that was used for over 25 years without issue with his IFCS.

Something is not right if your impeller or other gears are wearing out so quickly. I can usually get 5-7 years (or longer) out of a gearset. Mine runs at 2900 rpm for 4 hours daily and 1200 rpm for the other 20 hours, so the water valve is always cycling.

When was the last time you opened your filter and fully cleaned it and the grids?
Are you using the correct amount of DE when recharging the filter?
A filter pressure of 22 psi seems high. That pressure is in the filter, before the water goes thru the DE and grids and then returned to the pool by way of the water valve and popups - so the higher filter pressure actually reduces flow to the IFCS.

 

[TinFoilHat]

My salt cell is upstream of the floor cleaning head like yours is. I went through many broken flaps over the years before Shasta finally listened and replaced the entire head assembly under our warranty. This included two full sets of gears that I put in as well. I don't believe the salt system had anything to do with it because it's just chlorine that comes out of it. I'm thinking you just need to replace your head like I had done on mine, if you've been running it for many years. In fact, I doubt there is any way to not have the cell upstream since from the cleaner head the return pipes all go straight down back to the pool as the last device the water ever sees.

 

[brianjsw]

Great - each zone should run for about a minute or so.

I have a SWG upstream of my water valve and no issues.
My neighbor had a tab feeder upstream that was used for over 25 years without issue with his IFCS.

Something is not right if your impeller or other gears are wearing out so quickly. I can usually get 5-7 years (or longer) out of a gearset. Mine runs at 2900 rpm for 4 hours daily and 1200 rpm for the other 20 hours, so the water valve is always cycling.

When was the last time you opened your filter and fully cleaned it and the grids?
Are you using the correct amount of DE when recharging the filter?
A filter pressure of 22 psi seems high. That pressure is in the filter, before the water goes thru the DE and grids and then returned to the pool by way of the water valve and popups - so the higher filter pressure actually reduces flow to the IFCS.

The cartridge filter was cleaned at the same time as the impeller wore down. The tech wanted to try to rule out problems. He also cleaned the salt cell. Three weeks later (with a clean filter) the impeller is already wearing again. It’s good to be able to rule out SWG for the problem thanks. Still working today I will post back with more photos next time it locks up.

 

[brianjsw]

My salt cell is upstream of the floor cleaning head like yours is. I went through many broken flaps over the years before Shasta finally listened and replaced the entire head assembly under our warranty. This included two full sets of gears that I put in as well. I don't believe the salt system had anything to do with it because it's just chlorine that comes out of it. I'm thinking you just need to replace your head like I had done on mine, if you've been running it for many years. In fact, I doubt there is any way to not have the cell upstream since from the cleaner head the return pipes all go straight down back to the pool as the last device the water ever sees.

Thanks for the reassurance about SWG being okay. And yes I would have to have the entire pad relocated and the cleaning valve moved as well to do something that drastic.

 

[proavia]

OK - Does the infloor do a good job cleaning the pool?
If so, maybe try opening the RETURNS ball valve just a little - use care in turning that ball valve as they do tend to bind up (that is why we recommend they be replaced with a rebuildable Jandy type valve. This should reduce the flow to the infloor a bit and may reduce wear on the impeller gear. You will need to determine the exact setting as you can see if the floor is getting cleaned adequately. Maybe start by opening it about 20-25 percent.

Again, be careful with that ball valve as they usually bind up or the handle will snap off after a few years.
Don't force it - if it doesn't want to move, just leave it alone.

 

[jonpcar]

Just a thought…does the long central middle “axle” fit cleanly and tightly into the upper lid assembly? If that is loose fitting or worn, it could cause a wobble and quick/irregular wear on the bottom of the impeller where it fits into the rest of the gears. It’s worth a check next time you take it apart.

 

[brianjsw]

I just had to replace the impeller again today. Here is a photo of the impeller I replaced. Notice the teeth are worn down and only half their original height. Also the etching in the plate.