Pool Concuming a lot of MA

[ewkearns]

Currently, I have:

FC 4.0
CC 0.0
pH 7.6
TA 100
CH 260
CYA 40
Borate 50

With goals of:

FC 4.0
CC 0.0
pH 7.4
TA 100
CH 250
CYA 40
Borate 50

However, I am continually dosing with MA to hold the pH down. In the last 2 weeks, the pool has consumed 280 Oz. of MA, just to hold the pH under 7.6 and attempt to touch 7.4. I don't get it. Any ideas on what is going on?

PS
No fill water in the period.

 

[Azgirl71]

With your TA at 100, you will continue to have this issue. Read this and try to bring your TA down in the recomended ranges and it should slow the PH rises.

Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

Remember it is also a process like the SLAM. It will take a bit to lower it.

 

[Fungi]

Aeration can cause PH to raise. Even returns that are aimed toward the surface can raise PH. If you have any features, waterfall, anything like that will also cause aeration.

 

[ewkearns]

I was trying to fudge on the side of the requirements of the liner manufacturer. I guess I can't do both bbb/tfp and that.... and keep the water balanced.

 

[Azgirl71]

Nope, you will have to decide who you want to follow.

 

[ewkearns]

We're going with TFP, in spite of the tinkling contest with the manufacturer over their "warranty."

 

[Azgirl71]

Yay! You will not regret it! I have gone against every manufacturer rule on my pool, but I have a beautiful pool thanks to TFP methods.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I was trying to fudge on the side of the requirements of the liner manufacturer. I guess I can't do both bbb/tfp and that.... and keep the water balanced.

Actually, if you follow TFP, then your water will be balanced. I'm curious, what has the liner manufacturer told you to do?

If you put your numbers into PoolMath (I assumed 82F for water temperature), you get -

CSI = +0.07 for your current values

and

CSI = -0.19 for your goals [EDIT]Corrected this number, had wrong TA value.[END-EDIT]

Your water, as-is, is balanced with respect to calcium carbonate saturation in water. Since you have a vinyl pool, the negative CSI value for your goals isn't a problem.

 

[BoDarville]

You have been given advice that is technically correct. However, your pH is within the range that we recommend. I wouldn't spend a lot of time fiddling with it - just enjoy the pool.

I can tell you from experience that the TFP method has lengthened the life of everything from swimsuits, goggles, cleaner hoses, etc. compared to my pre-TFP days of following the typical "pool-store" way of managing things.

 

[ewkearns]

Well, this all devolved from me trying to understand GLI's (no-)warranty. They specifically excluded "improper chemical utilization," but passively refused to define the term. All I could get out of them via email was " Typically, if your chlorine is maintained below 3ppm and your PH is between 7.2 - 7.6 your liner will wear at a normal rate." Their website states: "Standard pool water should be maintained at a pH between 7.2-7.6 and an Alkalinity level between 80-120 PPM. "

I finally just gave up when it became painfully obvious that their "warranty" only covered seam failure.... nothing else. Sort of like GM warranting the welds in their cars, but referring all other failures to US Steel.

Whatever, I have a crystal clear pool that I am maintaining for cents a day and I only have to go to the pool store to people watch and remind myself of how bad life can be......

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Well, this all devolved from me trying to understand GLI's (no-)warranty. They specifically excluded "improper chemical utilization," but passively refused to define the term. All I could get out of them via email was " Typically, if your chlorine is maintained below 3ppm and your PH is between 7.2 - 7.6 your liner will wear at a normal rate." Their website states: "Standard pool water should be maintained at a pH between 7.2-7.6 and an Alkalinity level between 80-120 PPM. "

I finally just gave up when it became painfully obvious that their "warranty" only covered seam failure.... nothing else. Sort of like GM warranting the welds in their cars, but referring all other failures to US Steel.

Whatever, I have a crystal clear pool that I am maintaining for cents a day and I only have to go to the pool store to people watch and remind myself of how bad life can be......

Have you tried going back at them and asking them to define what "wear at a normal rate" means? Do they have any technical literature that they can point to showing "wear rate" as a function of some water parameters?

My guess is they have no idea what their standards are as vinyl manufacturers rely on a wide array of vinyl sheet material suppliers who also can't supply information on their materials. I would love to see some technical literature on vinyl (other than sales brochures) but I would not hold my breath.

 

[ewkearns]

Have you tried going back at them and asking them to define what "wear at a normal rate" means? Do they have any technical literature that they can point to showing "wear rate" as a function of some water parameters?

My guess is they have no idea what their standards are as vinyl manufacturers rely on a wide array of vinyl sheet material suppliers who also can't supply information on their materials. I would love to see some technical literature on vinyl (other than sales brochures) but I would not hold my breath.

I have a fairly long email trail of me asking questions and them responding, essentially, (1) ...chlorine is maintained below 3ppm and your PH is between 7.2 - 7.6... (2) and that they don't warrant the materials, ONLY the workmanship (welds). Thus, my statement that they passively refused to answer my questions by answering obliquely. The process almost reached the level of high comedy when it became clear that they had no intention of answering any comprehensive or pointed questions, in writing.