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schford

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May 27, 2014
15
London, UK
Just wanted to say a quick hello and how useful the forum is!

I got my first ever spa a month or so ago and so far just didn't get it right - The Bromine just wouldn't stay up without constantly running a boost cycle on the in.clear unit.

So after I read the forum I ordered a decent test kit and started from scratch yesterday....

I ponied up for a second hand Palintest 7100 - cleaned the spa with some spa clean concentrate solution, emptied the tub and refilled it last night and left it heating.

Then spent the morning getting the chemistry right (I never knew about using the blowers to get the PH back up so you could cycle the TA down with PH Minus - awesome!) - My Calcium Hardness is now 225, Total Alkalinity is 120 and PH is 7.3 and my Total dissolved solids were 412...

I added my Bromicharge (Sodium Bromide) at about 2pm (it uses an gecko in.clear system to generate Bromine) and checked the bromine levels - 0.04 which is what I expected.....

I checked again at 3pm and its up to .16 ppm bromine so hopefully all working well....now its just wait and see how quickly it goes up :) and hopefully it will now maintain it!

Im hoping it gets over 2ppm by 7pm so our daughter can go in - if it hasnt I might give it a little helping hand with some chlorine - what do you guys think?

Stuart
 
Welcome to TFP! :wave:

Are you sure you only added 2 ppm of sodium bromide and what does that mean anyway since ppm is not a quantity you add but a result you expect to obtain and sodium bromide by itself does not get you bromine? The Gecko in.clear TechBook says the following:

Add 0,143 Kg of sodium bromide 98% active ingredient, such as BromiCharge per 100 liters of water to attain 1 400 ppm TDS value (Total Dissolved Solids).
Click to expand...

That is the same as adding 19 ounces weight per 100 gallons.

I'm guessing that you didn't add nearly enough BromiCharge after your refill so the bromine generator doesn't have nearly enough bromide salt in the water to make bromine. Since I'm not clear exactly how much BromiCharge you added, I don't know if you even have enough to make bromine by adding chlorine to the water. If you are desperate to get in and use the spa, then you could just add some Dichlor so you'll know you have at least chlorine even if there is not enough bromide to make bromine, but if you want your generator to properly make bromine then you'll need to follow the instructions and add the appropriate amount of sodium bromide (BromiCharge).
 
Actually, I misread "pm" as "ppm" -- my bad. Anyway, you added the right amount so your bromine generator should be generating bromine. So yes you should be able to just add plain unscented bleach (not splash-less or "outdoor" since those have ingredients that will cause foaming).

If you've adjusted the value of the Maintenance mode for the in.clear unit properly and you started Boost mode and set the Boost level appropriately, you should be generating bromine. You set the Maintenance level so that you maintain bromine in between soaks and they say to use the Boost level when you get in which presumably generates 100% of the time for a while. Note the procedures for setting these levels. The manual says the following:

Maximum output of Hypobromus Acid equivalent to 0.04 kg of free available bromine per day.
Click to expand...

So that is 40 grams of bromine per 24 hours which in your 1700 liter spa would be 23.5 ppm bromine if the unit were running all the time so very roughly 1 ppm bromine per hour when the unit is operating. Every person-hour of soaking in a hot (104ºF) spa requires roughly 7 ppm FC in 350 gallons so translating into bromine and your spa size this is roughly 12.3 ppm bromine. So your unit probably won't handle that much more than one person-hour unless you kept the circulation pump on longer. If you find that even after adjusting Maintenance and Boost levels that your unit isn't able to keep up, you can always add chlorine bleach after your soak to help it out and could even do that instead of using the Boost mode and just use the unit for maintenance in between soaks only. Up to you.
 
Thanks for the advice - I just checked the bromine levels at 17.30 and it is now .83 ppm - so in 3.5 hours it has gained just under 1ppm (this feels on the low side given you mention it should generate 1ppm per hour - I wonder if I have a fault and that is why the unit would never maintain Bromine levels for the last month?)

This spas has a 24 hour circulation pump and at the moment I have the in.clear set on maximum boost mode of 8 (I am guessing this is the quickest way to get some bromine in there) - I took a stab at the maintenance level based on the dealers recommendation of 34 (unit goes from 1 to 50 but no explanation what the number means)...

I am not sure I have any plain bleach here but I do have some chlorine granuals and some non chlorine shock - would those help to get the bromimine levels up so my daughter can go in in about an hour or so?

Thanks

Stuart
 
Just double checked the bleach we have it is definatly citrus scented - dont think that would be good for the tub! :)

I have Stabilised chronie granuals here - which say Sodium Dichloroisocyanurate dihydrate on the back

also

Oxygen based shock treatment which says blend of pottasium monopersulphate contains dipotassium peroxodisulphate

Looking at bleach do I need to order something like this? - http://www.amazon.co.uk/5L-Bottle-I...ie=UTF8&qid=1401383276&sr=8-2&keywords=bleach
 

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You can use Dichlor or non-chlorine shock if you don't have the appropriate bleach. It does seem your generator is having problems keeping up. Supplement with added oxidizers until you get that sorted out. Probably just add some oxidizer after each soak and hopefully the bromine generator will be able to maintain something in between soaks.
 
Thanks for the advice I will put a packet of this in after each soak along with the boost... http://www.thehottubssuperstore.co.uk/theshop/shock?product_id=110 until I find the right bleach in the UK...

Ill also ring up the hot tub store tomorrow as the maintenance setting just isn't keeping the bromium levels up...and I am convinced the hot tub got a through cleaning and the Alkilinity and PH are bang on (just tested them again)...
 
Could anyone tell me if this bleach looks ok? - http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=260550096

It looks like a 1.5% strength based on this

"Tesco Everyday Value Thin Bleach contains amongst other ingredients: Less than 5% Chlorine based bleaching agent,Disinfectant: Sodium Hypochlorite 1.5g per 100g"

But it is cheap as chips and given my low water volume compared to pools I suspect should be ok? Now how to work out how much to use!?
 
It's likely to raise the pH more than more concentrated bleach since it may have more excess lye in it relative to the FC level. You can try it. For a pool I wouldn't recommend it, but for a spa you don't use as much so it may be OK. It might have thickeners or other ingredients you don't want so if it causes foaming you can stop using it. The UK does have real chlorinating liquid sources such as Crowne at 4.9% or this eBay source for 14-15% or this source for 14-15% or this source for 10-11% or 14-15%. I'm sure there are others in the UK/England.
 
For a spa, the 4.9% is probably better since it will last longer. It depends on how much you use your spa and how much chlorine you use. The 15% will degrade much faster so if you don't think you'd use the entire container in a few weeks to a month, then you might consider the lower concentration.
 
Thanks a bunch chem geek - wish there was a like button on here :) It looks like that after the clean the maintenance mode is almost holding the Bromine level when it is set on 50 (the maximum).....

I don't know whether to call em out to swap the cell out or try another clean or maybe shocking it with bleach when I pick it up to see if that kills any left over nasties and then see if it holds?

Stuart
 
You could SLAM to see if that helps, but you could also do a 24-hour no bather load loss test (i.e. don't soak for a day and then measure the 24-hour loss the next day) to see how much you are losing, but you obviously need to turn off your bromine generator when you do that test. If you aren't losing a lot, then your generator may be broken not outputting what they claim.
 
Just to let everyone know - they changed the bromine generation and its significantly better - every now and again I have to give it a splash of chlorine to bump it back up if we have it packed and stay in drinking for hours but its much better and for normal use the boost button works great...

Thanks so much for all the help...
 

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