Chlorine Dioxide for free

[Pommezimbo]

I have read the two posts I can find on this forum R.E. chlorine dioxide, but they didn't give me an answer really as to if I should go ahead and use the stuff in my pool.

I have a friend who owns a Chemical Manufactiring plant, the same place where I get my 12% manufactured.

He has been making Chlorine Dioxide solution for a water treatment company who recently failed to pay for the order, so he has offered me 200 litres for free if I want it seeing as its the festive season n all. He advised me he reckons the shelf life with this stuff is 3months while kept in the container in the dark.

To all you chemically minded far more intelligent people then myself, is its safe to use this in my pool for the next few months? I have a CYA level of approx 40ppm (waiting for kit to arrive to verify)
I know from reading the other posts it is not confirmed if CYA sheilds it during the day so would I need to try and add sodium hypo separately at a very minimum level to keep a residual?
Thoughts and input all greatly valued and very appreciated.

Mike

 

[Patrick_B]

Yes, bleach is a key component and so is Acid if you are talking about making it with a generator. If so......

There is also mixing equipment involved and I would STRONGLY advise you NOT to go this route.

MOST IMPORTANTLY:

Using this requires experience and training to handle and apply it safely. Without that knowledge and training you
are asking for a disaster that could very easily cause irreparable harm to you or your loved ones.

It is only my opinion, but this friend is not much of a friend to even suggest that you take on the task of treating your pool with Chlorine Dioxide. It is a wonderful product, if handled and applied safely in the correct setting. It's merits cannot be argued, and neither can it's hazards.

There are other ways that are perfectly safe and very effective in sanitizing your pool perfectly. Plain liquid bleach is the best in my opinion. Perhaps your friend can give you a deal on the Bleach component as you need it. Keep in mind that it does have a shelf life when you are buying in larger quantities.

 

[Pommezimbo]

Brushpup- Firstly I appreciate the quick reply :-D

Secondly- I am not making the stuff, he has it already made in liquid form, sitting in 25l jugs in his factory, as the buyer did not collect. He manufactures thousands of gallons a month for the water treatment plants here, he is the sole supplier for most of this city. Just so happens he has this surplus and He will most likely be disposing it to waste if I don't take some of it.
So essentially- I am wondering is it safe to use in liquid form- ie pouring directly in front of return at night wearing gloves and eye protection?

My question about the bleach was- this stuff apparently will disappear after an hour of sunlight or two. So I was asking so I need to re dose with day a cup of bleach at lunch time to keep a residual FC. But after thinking about it I don't think that will matter due to every living thing in the pool being obliterated by the stuff at night.

I think I didn't make my first post clear- sorry for that!!!

A side note, I have a small background in Chemical handling and application so I am fairly aware of the hazards. I just wanted to know if it would be safe to swim the next day after dosing at night.
Bottom line- if the experts on here think not safe even with precautions- then I will give it a miss.

Ps. He does give me a very good deal on normal bleach- we sit and have coffee while his factory makes it fresh and sells it to me at cost there are some perks to living in Zimbabwe!

Mike

 

[Patrick_B]

No need for apology, I just wanted to warn about using a generator. Since that is my only exposure to it's use, I was concerned for safety reasons. I should have analyzed your post more carefully. My apologies to you for over-reacting. My only experience with it is in an industrial setting, but in short it is not a good alternative to bleach. It is very sensitive to sunlight, and it doesn't provide a lasting residual. I would just stick with bleach at a discount.

Oh how so many of us here would love having a friend who produced bleach. He would be our bestest friend ever.

 

[chem geek]

Chlorine dioxide will break down in the UV from sunlight and does not bind to CYA so will only be partially protected via some CYA shielding effect. The EPA does not approve its use in pools partly because the industry didn't want to spend the $1-2 million needed for the efficacy and especially the safety studies. On-site generation of chlorine dioxide from adding sodium chlorite to chlorinated water may produce some chlorate and that's a regulated drinking water chemical.

The product Hydroxan is tetracholorodecaoxide (TCDO) that in water forms chlorine dioxide. So it's a more stable precursor for adding chlorine dioxide to a pool. You will note that they refer to its use in indoor pools. I believe this is only sold in Canada since it is not EPA-approved in the U.S., though perhaps they can get around that if they do not claim it as a disinfectant and just claim it as a supplemental oxidizer for chlorine.

So the main issue that I see is that continued exposure of the chlorine dioxide to sunlight may result in a buildup of chlorate. As noted in this link, "In the presence of UV light, chlorine dioxide rapidly decomposes to form chlorine, oxygen and a variety of transient intermediate oxychlorine compounds which may be highly corrosive." Then again, UV breaks down chlorine into hydroxyl radicals so it's not clear that with chlorine dioxide such oxychlorine compounds are necessarily worse, but since we don't know, you would be taking a risk.

 

[Pommezimbo]

My Internet here is up and down frustratingly typed out a reply to have it cut out and then the site log me out over and over again....?

The long and short of it was- Brushpup- No worries this stuff is very iffy by the looks of it!! Main thing is to be safe rather than sorry. More investigating needed before I go any further if at all.

He is an awesome mate and a very "interesting" guy let's just put it that way!! Was a great day when I realized he manufactured bleach on site especially as the supermarket brands here are crazy crazy $$$$!! Normally what I get is more on the 15% side so can't complain at all!!

Chem Geek- As always, awesome reply :-D Exactly the detailed info I was after, plenty of links there to keep me occupied for a bit! 2 more questions come to mind, I haven't read the links yet, but in case not addressed within those pages: 1.Why is chlorate build up dangerous? (Excuse my ignorance) 2. How long (approx) a period of use and how much used before buildup becomes a level
of danger for my size pool?

It's looking like the risk is not worth it. Still would like to find out more.

Many thanks in advance!!!!!

 

[chem geek]

As described in this EPA document, chlorate is a thyroid toxicant. However, there is virtually no dermal absorption and it is not volatile (it's an inorganic salt) so the only practical issue is in drinking the water. This EPA document gives a No Observed Adverse Effect Limit (NOAEL) of 30 mg/kg/day. By comparison, the borates NOAEL is 8.8 mg/kg/day (in mg Boron). Only some of the chlorine dioxide breaks down to chlorate; some becomes chlorine and then chloride. So it is very unlikely that you will build up enough chlorate in the swimming pool water to get near this NOAEL even if you were to drink quarts of pool water every day.

 

[Pommezimbo]

Awesome. I have borates in my pool at 40-50 ppm- I deliberated for months about the safety of this. (And then I had to convince the wife I wasn't going to "burn our eyes out" when she saw me lugging 20 KG of boric acid from the car....lol. She now loves the soft feel of the water along with no stinging eyes, as my ph stays in range for about 6 weeks and TA has been at 80 for about 3
Months! )

SO - the possible build up is essentially safer than drinking quarts of boron solution. More reading till I try it but at least this is put to rest in my mind.

After all I am not intending to switch to this stuff for my sanitation 24/7, I am merely considering supplementing bleach now and again after thunder/ dust storms etc ,until it expires. Also the fill water is not safe to drink to start with (we are talking about Zimbabwe here...) as I am sure you can imagine. Often it is contaminated with sewage etc , testing positive for diseases as confirmed by UNICEF whose premises here are opposite my house .So it would be nice to know I have killed everything. All our drinking water is bought from the supermarket, as I'm sure people are familiar with, in many other countries/areas without proper maintained sanitation infrastructures. The only up side is that the municipal water, when coming out the taps at all, is dirt cheap.

Thanks for the response to my questions love this site!

 

[Patrick_B]

I can certainly appreciate your concerns with the water quality. We take it for granted here as with so many things we have. If it were me, I might be considering it as well. Glad you found the forum, and hope you stick around to enjoy it more. Good to have you here.

 

[Pommezimbo]

Brushpup sorry for the late reply life here gets kinda hectic at times!! Add to that re doing the old leaky polypipe returns with PVC and I am sure u get the picture.

Thanks for that man!

I definitely plan on sticking around, I was lurking for 6 months after all ! Fixing things all with advice from this place, in fact due to this site even without a proper test kit, my numbers were actually pretty close to what I thought as I have posted in my latest thread. But boy was it hard work and a waste of money on tons of bleach!!!!

Glad to be here too!!! :-D