Concrete Block Puppy Pool - in progress - many questions
- Thread starter bob2112
- Start date
In your case, I think I would start with the KISS system to start and add automation later, if you decide you need it. KISS=Keep it Simple System (or some other s-word)
I would start with manual additions of bleach using a jug and after your have the pool for a while, you can decide to add a SWG or stenner. I am going assume you will need less than a gallon of bleach each week and only a couple ounces each day.
I would start with manual additions of bleach using a jug and after your have the pool for a while, you can decide to add a SWG or stenner. I am going assume you will need less than a gallon of bleach each week and only a couple ounces each day.
vinper said:
I bought this stuff and used it about 10 years ago from lowe's. I dug out a brick planter, and then poured a concrete floor in it, then formed up and poured 2" thick walls. The concrete was mixed with xypex. It was waterproof for the 2 years i operated it as a gold fish pond. I also remember reading that product is okay for use with concrete surfaces and food, so if you were pouring a concrete outdoor kitchen counter that would be the stuff to use.
Okay... that was fun! Well, maybe "fun" isn't the exact word that I'm looking for...
The block will be filled as soon as I'm up to it. And I have to fill in the ledge (puppy lounge) area with packed dirt before I can pour that
The returns (4 total) are low on the side towards the deck so that the pipes won't show and in the 3rd row of block on the back side. The water will come up about a third of the way on the 4th block.
The pump & filter (small combination Hayward unit) and the skimmer came in today, so tomorrow I'll start on the plumbing and trying to figure out how to install the skimmer.
Darn shame that I have absolutely NO CLUE how I'm going to finish the inside.
PS - my back hurts
The block will be filled as soon as I'm up to it. And I have to fill in the ledge (puppy lounge) area with packed dirt before I can pour that
The returns (4 total) are low on the side towards the deck so that the pipes won't show and in the 3rd row of block on the back side. The water will come up about a third of the way on the 4th block.
The pump & filter (small combination Hayward unit) and the skimmer came in today, so tomorrow I'll start on the plumbing and trying to figure out how to install the skimmer.
Darn shame that I have absolutely NO CLUE how I'm going to finish the inside.
PS - my back hurts
Your pups must think you are awesome! Wish I could help but I'm not much of a DIY'er. At any rate though, it's looking great and I know you will figure it all out. Hope you post pics of the pups in the pool.
I am enjoying watching your progress. Can't wait to see a photo with the pups and water!
Did you lay all those blocks? At this point, if you think you are up to it, why not plaster it?
The pond liner you have is tought stuff to. I actually have a roll of pond liner joint tape, same material as the liner, just backed with a glue, you coul use this stuff to make seams in the corners instead of having excess material there. The steps would be tricky however.
You could also use the previously mentioned concrete waterproofing additive and do a skimcoat of mortar but I don't know if it would hold up.
Plus roughly done walls might make maintainence more difficult.
The pond liner you have is tought stuff to. I actually have a roll of pond liner joint tape, same material as the liner, just backed with a glue, you coul use this stuff to make seams in the corners instead of having excess material there. The steps would be tricky however.
You could also use the previously mentioned concrete waterproofing additive and do a skimcoat of mortar but I don't know if it would hold up.
Plus roughly done walls might make maintainence more difficult.
Puppy Pool Update - pic heavy
Sorry, I've either been too busy or too tired to get online, but there has been some pretty good progress!
The block work wasn't too hard, but very time consuming. Hauling all the block from the front yard to the back yard was probably worse than laying them. I had had a cement company pour the footings and bottom, because that was just too much cement to mix myself.
So, I finally came up with the skimmer installation solution. I don't know that it was the best way, but it should hold.
I'll just let the pictures explain what I did
Didn't take a picture of it, but I had a small bucket the exact size of the skimmer clean out hole that I duct taped over the top of that opening and it went into the form to make the semi-round shape in the concrete needed.
Can kinda be seen here:
The dug out area is to be the pad for the pump & filter. There is another pad at the other end for where I'm going to put fiberglass stairs. I'm going to get fiberglass steps because they are light enough to move away from the pool when we don't want the dogs getting in. Found a set on Craig's List that had been used for a mobile home.
You can also see that I put a couple coats of waterproofing on the outside of the block, something called DryLok. The concrete guys managed to pretty much mess that up today when filling the block, but the outside will have a stone work finish, so no biggie.
Here is a view of the skimmer from inside the pool.
Here's the step and ledge. I ended up adding another 2x2 ft step (6 inches high) against the wall where the outside steps will be. I have to download those pictures yet, so I'll add that later. The additional step is because we figured the ledge/shelf area was too far down from the top for the dogs to get out of their pool easily.
Just had the concrete guys back today to fill the block, pour the pads and add 3 inches to the bottom of the pool. The additional 3 inches not only will give me a much better seal between the bottom and the block, but make the depth exactly right (24 inches) so that no permit and all that is needed.
STILL haven't decided on how I'm going to finish the interior! I find something I think will be good and then read reviews about how that doesn't work or last very long or... *sigh* I just want something that will look good and I won't have to refinish every few years.
The weather forecast says rain for the next few days, so I'll finally have time to get back on the computer and do more research.
I will move on to plumbing next.
That $2000 dog proof pool that we had wanted to buy is sure looking like a good deal now! The dogs would have been swimming by now. As I'm seeing it, I've got another 10 days of work to do - not counting rain days. And, this stupid project will easily pass 5K and trash my back for the next month.
But... Happy Wife = Happy Life
More to come, just wanted to catch ya'll up on what's been going on around here. Gotta get back to work!
Sorry, I've either been too busy or too tired to get online, but there has been some pretty good progress!
The block work wasn't too hard, but very time consuming. Hauling all the block from the front yard to the back yard was probably worse than laying them. I had had a cement company pour the footings and bottom, because that was just too much cement to mix myself.
So, I finally came up with the skimmer installation solution. I don't know that it was the best way, but it should hold.
I'll just let the pictures explain what I did
Didn't take a picture of it, but I had a small bucket the exact size of the skimmer clean out hole that I duct taped over the top of that opening and it went into the form to make the semi-round shape in the concrete needed.
Can kinda be seen here:
The dug out area is to be the pad for the pump & filter. There is another pad at the other end for where I'm going to put fiberglass stairs. I'm going to get fiberglass steps because they are light enough to move away from the pool when we don't want the dogs getting in. Found a set on Craig's List that had been used for a mobile home.
You can also see that I put a couple coats of waterproofing on the outside of the block, something called DryLok. The concrete guys managed to pretty much mess that up today when filling the block, but the outside will have a stone work finish, so no biggie.
Here is a view of the skimmer from inside the pool.
Here's the step and ledge. I ended up adding another 2x2 ft step (6 inches high) against the wall where the outside steps will be. I have to download those pictures yet, so I'll add that later. The additional step is because we figured the ledge/shelf area was too far down from the top for the dogs to get out of their pool easily.
Just had the concrete guys back today to fill the block, pour the pads and add 3 inches to the bottom of the pool. The additional 3 inches not only will give me a much better seal between the bottom and the block, but make the depth exactly right (24 inches) so that no permit and all that is needed.
STILL haven't decided on how I'm going to finish the interior! I find something I think will be good and then read reviews about how that doesn't work or last very long or... *sigh* I just want something that will look good and I won't have to refinish every few years.
The weather forecast says rain for the next few days, so I'll finally have time to get back on the computer and do more research.
I will move on to plumbing next.
That $2000 dog proof pool that we had wanted to buy is sure looking like a good deal now! The dogs would have been swimming by now. As I'm seeing it, I've got another 10 days of work to do - not counting rain days. And, this stupid project will easily pass 5K and trash my back for the next month.
But... Happy Wife = Happy Life
More to come, just wanted to catch ya'll up on what's been going on around here. Gotta get back to work!
Is the skimmer the only suction side opening? Or is there a main drain somewhere? When it's no longer needed as a pool it would make a nice coy pond but i think they normally have bottom drains.
The pipe on the same wall as the skimmer is also a suction line. Then there are the four returns on the sides. No bottom drain.
Now, I'm hoping the pump I bought will be big enough to do the job. It's only 1/2 HP and I figured I didn't need bigger due to the small (gallons) size of the pool, but I'm still running enough plumbing for a larger pool.
Okay, it's probably kinda obvious that I jumped into this project with not much more than the desire to build my dogs a pool.
I have learned much along the way and have 10 times that yet to learn. But, I'm trying!
Today's question ...
I've been reading about electrical bonding. Now, I'm not worried about inspectors (knock on wood) but I want this to be a safe environment for both the dogs and us in and around the pool. It sounds like this bonding thing could be kind of important to prevent electrical shock issues. (?)
Is this something I should add to my to do list? If so, how would I go about it at this stage of construction? The simpler the better, but I want everyone (every dog) to be safe!
Now, I'm hoping the pump I bought will be big enough to do the job. It's only 1/2 HP and I figured I didn't need bigger due to the small (gallons) size of the pool, but I'm still running enough plumbing for a larger pool.
Okay, it's probably kinda obvious that I jumped into this project with not much more than the desire to build my dogs a pool.
I have learned much along the way and have 10 times that yet to learn. But, I'm trying!
Today's question ...
I've been reading about electrical bonding. Now, I'm not worried about inspectors (knock on wood) but I want this to be a safe environment for both the dogs and us in and around the pool. It sounds like this bonding thing could be kind of important to prevent electrical shock issues. (?)
Is this something I should add to my to do list? If so, how would I go about it at this stage of construction? The simpler the better, but I want everyone (every dog) to be safe!
Hi all, Happy Sunday!
I'm down to two major issues yet to figure out, one being the finish products that I will use inside the pool, but I'd like to set that aside for now.
What is causing me to lose sleep is this electrical bonding stuff.
I stumbled across this subject too late in the pool construction process to incorporate the steps that I probably should have and I'm now trying to figure out how to remedy this at the stage of the build as it sits now. From what I can see, there is no "bonding lug" on the pump that I have if that is relevant.
I REALLY need help! I've spent hours reading up on pool bonding and reading threads here as to how I can overcome bonding steps that I omitted during the build. The more I read, the more my eyes glass over and more defeated I feel, so I am open to any and all suggestions as to proceed.
Being a guy that types with two fingers, I appreciate the time your replies take, but if you have any suggestions without having to reverse engineer what has already been built, I would be grateful. I don't want my dogs getting shocked or being afraid of the pool!
Heading outside to finish up work on the plumbing so that I can uncross my eyes and clear my head so that I can try to figure this bonding thing out.
Plumbing pictures to follow.
Thank you for any help!
I'm down to two major issues yet to figure out, one being the finish products that I will use inside the pool, but I'd like to set that aside for now.
What is causing me to lose sleep is this electrical bonding stuff.
I stumbled across this subject too late in the pool construction process to incorporate the steps that I probably should have and I'm now trying to figure out how to remedy this at the stage of the build as it sits now. From what I can see, there is no "bonding lug" on the pump that I have if that is relevant.
I REALLY need help! I've spent hours reading up on pool bonding and reading threads here as to how I can overcome bonding steps that I omitted during the build. The more I read, the more my eyes glass over and more defeated I feel, so I am open to any and all suggestions as to proceed.
Being a guy that types with two fingers, I appreciate the time your replies take, but if you have any suggestions without having to reverse engineer what has already been built, I would be grateful. I don't want my dogs getting shocked or being afraid of the pool!
Heading outside to finish up work on the plumbing so that I can uncross my eyes and clear my head so that I can try to figure this bonding thing out.
Plumbing pictures to follow.
Thank you for any help!
Okay, I'm out there working on the PVC plumbing and have come up with a couple things I could do, but I don't understand Bonding enough to know if these ideas would help.
I could chip away some of the concrete used to fill the block to allow me to get to the 1/2" rebar that I put in the top course. This rebar isn't tied into the rest of the rebar used in the build, like the rebar in the floor, but it does go all the around the pool except where the skimmer is. Here is a couple pictures posted previously showing the rebar in the top course of block that I cut out.
Would getting to this rebar be of any benefit for Bonding purposes?
Also, I had planned to put a stone facing or tile on the outside of the pool. Would it help if I put a wire mesh (like chicken wire, but could be anything necessary) between the block and the stone for some kind of metal perimeter to Bond to?
Last idea I have is, I have seen Bonding Plates that go inside the skimmer. I've read that the water also needs to be Bonded (??). Would / does something like this work? Link to skimmer bonding plate: http://www.bondsafe680.com/inground.html
I'll add that there will be NO metal (lights, ladders, etc.) inside the pool - not counting the rebar inside the concrete. And, the ONLY metal outside the pool within 5 feet will be the pool pump. Oh wait, there is a chain link fence about 5-6 feet away along the backside. Don't know if all that matters, but I'm trying to cover everything to make answers easier.
I've recently discovered that it IS possible to get in over your head in a two foot deep pool. Hopefully, someone out there understands this electrical stuff enough to help me out.
I could chip away some of the concrete used to fill the block to allow me to get to the 1/2" rebar that I put in the top course. This rebar isn't tied into the rest of the rebar used in the build, like the rebar in the floor, but it does go all the around the pool except where the skimmer is. Here is a couple pictures posted previously showing the rebar in the top course of block that I cut out.
Would getting to this rebar be of any benefit for Bonding purposes?
Also, I had planned to put a stone facing or tile on the outside of the pool. Would it help if I put a wire mesh (like chicken wire, but could be anything necessary) between the block and the stone for some kind of metal perimeter to Bond to?
Last idea I have is, I have seen Bonding Plates that go inside the skimmer. I've read that the water also needs to be Bonded (??). Would / does something like this work? Link to skimmer bonding plate: http://www.bondsafe680.com/inground.html
I'll add that there will be NO metal (lights, ladders, etc.) inside the pool - not counting the rebar inside the concrete. And, the ONLY metal outside the pool within 5 feet will be the pool pump. Oh wait, there is a chain link fence about 5-6 feet away along the backside. Don't know if all that matters, but I'm trying to cover everything to make answers easier.
I've recently discovered that it IS possible to get in over your head in a two foot deep pool. Hopefully, someone out there understands this electrical stuff enough to help me out.
As you know, there is a lot of stuff on here about bonding - sorry you aren't getting any answers. You might try starting a new topic with bonding in the title - the regulars on that subject may find it better. Good luck - this is such a great project.
Thanks Crek. I'm on page 42 of the Bonding topic threads (from the search function) out of 104 pages of threads. I've spent hours reading stuff that really doesn't pertain to my situation. My wife even spent the day trying to research the problem and is pretty unhappy that she "wasted her entire day".
I'm not sure if my questions are just so unusual that no one has any suggestions, or if maybe everyone was just out today enjoying their pools.
I'd like to start another thread, as I'm sure it might attract more attention with a topic specific title, but I started another thread yesterday in the Pumping Station section with a plumbing question and the Site Owner told me that I should keep all my posts in one thread. Don't understand that, but it's his sandbox.
I dunno... I'm just so tired I'm going to give up and start again tomorrow.
My wife even spent the day trying to research the problem and is pretty unhappy that she "wasted her entire day".I'm not sure if my questions are just so unusual that no one has any suggestions, or if maybe everyone was just out today enjoying their pools.
I'd like to start another thread, as I'm sure it might attract more attention with a topic specific title, but I started another thread yesterday in the Pumping Station section with a plumbing question and the Site Owner told me that I should keep all my posts in one thread. Don't understand that, but it's his sandbox.
I dunno... I'm just so tired I'm going to give up and start again tomorrow.
Splitting threads is a hard call, sometimes if you don't get any result in a message thread like this and it is a somewhat independent topic then it may be the only way to get an answer. I would suggest sending a PM to Jason on this one and see what he thinks, maybe just a bonding question pointing to this thread would be a good compromise. With bonding you really end up with 2 somewhat separate topics, Bonding to be in compliance with code requirements, and bonding for practical reasons, the problem is I think people see answering the second one as a potential liability exposure. For example the code requires that bonding be done with one continuous un-spliced wire, if someone were to ask from a practical point of view why a spliced wire done with a waterproof splice would not work as well, and if any incident ever happened at that pool those that answered that a waterproof splice should be fine might have a legal liability, particularly if they are people that professionally deal with such things in their daily lives.
Ike
ps as I see it at this point you have limited choices, and perhaps the best you can do is to bond any additional decking to the existing metal structures as well as possible.
This is just a thought, and again I am not an expert on this, but perhaps adding a stainless steel handrail at the steps with one end set in the yet to be poured surrounding decking and one end tied to the rebar in the steps with water contacting the tubing would provide a practical electrical path to keep all 3 a equal potential.
Ike
ps as I see it at this point you have limited choices, and perhaps the best you can do is to bond any additional decking to the existing metal structures as well as possible.
This is just a thought, and again I am not an expert on this, but perhaps adding a stainless steel handrail at the steps with one end set in the yet to be poured surrounding decking and one end tied to the rebar in the steps with water contacting the tubing would provide a practical electrical path to keep all 3 a equal potential.
So, I lying in bed at 3am trying to figure this stuff out instead of sleeping, which seems to be the norm lately, and I'm thinking back to the start of my puppy pond/pool research. I think I mentioned that I started off on Koi Pond sites, and I had even purchased a liner, thinking I was going to build something along those lines.
I was on a few of the main Koi Pond sites and these folks have some pretty serious ponds. Most of the really impressive ponds are built with concrete, much like a regular swimming pool.
No where on any of those forums did I ever read anything about Bonding. Maybe that's why it didn't register and make it on my "to do list" on the Puppy Pool build.
Anyway, my latest question is - WHY aren't Koi ponds bonded? What is different enough about them compared to your typical swimming pool that folks building those fancy ponds don't consider Bonding?
They (the Koi ponds) have concrete w/rebar, the same type coping, lots of electrical stuff and you know these people (and their dogs!) sometimes get in the ponds. Many of those bigger ponds don't have liners in them, as the size and shape are beyond something a liner could be fitted in. Therefore, it's not the rubber liner that makes the difference - many have stone coping above the liner anyway.
Yet, I never read of anyone being shocked in/by their ponds.
So... while I'd still appreciate answers to my Bonding questions above, I'm now also curious as to why Koi ponds aren't bonded and if there is some tie in here I can use to get around my problem.
Maybe I'm grasping at straws, but I really need some work-a-rounds here!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
ETA: If anyone is worried about giving answers due to liability issues as Ike mentioned above, I'm simply looking for MacGyver type suggestions here, and any ideas that I may use are entirely by my choice.
Suggest away!!
One thing, There is no way to put a continuous loop (of #8 Bonding wire ) around the pool. The entire side towards the house is deck and there are now also the two new (UNbonded of course!) concrete pads I put in for the pool. So I'm wondering if something like that skimmer bonding plate can be wired into the ground differently. If I can't do the continuous loop around the pool, will the Bonding even work? I'm thinking about the buried wire just being along the backside - like 20 feet in length, because I want to rototill the yard when finished with the pool to resod, and I can just see the rototiller snagging the Bonding wire.
I was on a few of the main Koi Pond sites and these folks have some pretty serious ponds. Most of the really impressive ponds are built with concrete, much like a regular swimming pool.
No where on any of those forums did I ever read anything about Bonding. Maybe that's why it didn't register and make it on my "to do list" on the Puppy Pool build.
Anyway, my latest question is - WHY aren't Koi ponds bonded? What is different enough about them compared to your typical swimming pool that folks building those fancy ponds don't consider Bonding?
They (the Koi ponds) have concrete w/rebar, the same type coping, lots of electrical stuff and you know these people (and their dogs!) sometimes get in the ponds. Many of those bigger ponds don't have liners in them, as the size and shape are beyond something a liner could be fitted in. Therefore, it's not the rubber liner that makes the difference - many have stone coping above the liner anyway.
Yet, I never read of anyone being shocked in/by their ponds.
So... while I'd still appreciate answers to my Bonding questions above, I'm now also curious as to why Koi ponds aren't bonded and if there is some tie in here I can use to get around my problem.
Maybe I'm grasping at straws, but I really need some work-a-rounds here!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
ETA: If anyone is worried about giving answers due to liability issues as Ike mentioned above, I'm simply looking for MacGyver type suggestions here, and any ideas that I may use are entirely by my choice.
Suggest away!!
One thing, There is no way to put a continuous loop (of #8 Bonding wire ) around the pool. The entire side towards the house is deck and there are now also the two new (UNbonded of course!) concrete pads I put in for the pool. So I'm wondering if something like that skimmer bonding plate can be wired into the ground differently. If I can't do the continuous loop around the pool, will the Bonding even work? I'm thinking about the buried wire just being along the backside - like 20 feet in length, because I want to rototill the yard when finished with the pool to resod, and I can just see the rototiller snagging the Bonding wire.
cgd said:
My female Rottweiler used to wade in water n enjoy it until she waded off a shelf 2ft water depth at a park into deep water. All I saw was her nubbins over her head n that was the end of it for her. She won't even tolerate a bath or the hose now.