DIY IG rehab, cement walls, vinyl liner - Pool Filled!!

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Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

OK, then this is the direction I'm headed.

Ordering 90 2x8x16 blocks, and 10 80# bags of type s mortar, and maybe 10 bags of paver sand for readjusting the surrounding brick.

The Type S should be fine for both the walls to block joint, as well as the block to paver joint, right? Or should I still pony up for flex bond thinset?
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Liner track arrives tomorrow and the concrete blocks and mortar should be arriving this saturday. I have drained the pool, but I left what remains of the liner in place to keep the rain from eroding the hopper slopes, at least until Im all cleaned out and ready to start laying block.

I am contemplating replacing the stairs. I hear it's quite a pain the arse to do. The stairs are dirty, but no visible cracks, however they feel cheap and flimsey. Maybe this is because theres no water weight pushing them down, or perhaps they need to be backfilled a little better. Would you guys suggest replacing the stairs if they're not damaged, or just leave them in place?
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Got started with the deconstruction process. Had a very busy weekend, so I only had a few hours to work on it, which is probably a good thing considering how sunburned my shoulders got in such a short amount of time.

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The deconstruction begins. We pulled back the first few courses of brick to expose the wood beam.

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We pulled up one section of rotten beam where the liner had already pulled away. The cement walls look great. No cracks, and they seem to be perfectly straight and level.

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After a couple minutes with the pressure washer, I quickly realized there is no saving these stairs. Which is probably for the best, since the outdated 1970's appearance would have driven me crazy. Its a costly hit to take, but if we dont do it now, we cant replace them till the next time we replace the liner, and we'll need to pull up brick work then too.

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Pulling the liner and foam from the shallow end, we can see everything looks to be in pretty good condition. Ill need to regrade the shallow end, but the walls and plumbing look great so far.

I received my delivery of cement block and mortar as well as fifteen 8 foot lengths of liner track. The cement block measures roughly 1-1/2 inches in height. Assuming 1/2 mortar joint, and taking into consideration the new top mounted location of the liner track, the liner bead should only be 3/4 of an inch above the original pool design. And once we put down 1-3/4 thick pavers instead of the 2-1/4 thick clay brick, the difference will be within 1/4" to the original deck height.

Do you guys suggest that I apply anything between the cement block and liner track? I was thinking construction adhesive or even caulk could help remove any irregularities in wall height due to the cement block. Im planning on drilling every 6 inches for 1-1/4 masonry screws to hold the track in. Pavers will be mortared down on top of the track at a later time.

Also, any suggestions on new steps? Cheapest option seems to be quaker plastics Step-N-Seat from national pool wholesalers at around 1100 bucks.
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

I can't wait to see progress pics on this one! I think the step replacement is gonna be a doozie. Make sure to backfill under them really, really well. I used 1/2" gravel and packed, packed, and packed some more. Otherwise you'll feel it when you step on them. Check out the ALPS steps. I can't remember my costs, but they are a quality made product. They come in colors other than white too. I went with the gray. Seems like you are on the right track. Good luck!
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

harleysilo said:
Have you considered constructing steps of concrete, and then having your new liner cover them?
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I very much dislike vinyl over steps. I'm just not a fan of the look or feel. Id love true stone, but I dont think that's in my budget.
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

janthony said:
I can't wait to see progress pics on this one! I think the step replacement is gonna be a doozie. Make sure to backfill under them really, really well. I used 1/2" gravel and packed, packed, and packed some more. Otherwise you'll feel it when you step on them. Check out the ALPS steps. I can't remember my costs, but they are a quality made product. They come in colors other than white too. I went with the gray. Seems like you are on the right track. Good luck!
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Thanks for the input. Looking around its difficult to find any pricing on ALPS stairs, but it seems like royal swimming pools might sell ALPS (they dont specify who makes them). All their pool steps run about 1400 bucks. I'm fine with plain old white, but I do want to get the built in seats. Do you think the ALPS steps are worth the extra 300 bucks over the quaker steps? Looking at the quaker brochure, they appear to be fairly well made, though I cant really tell until I get my hands on them. I really don't know who the major players are. Thanks again.
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Don't quote me because I am not sure, but all my pool materials came from "Associated Leisure Products" outside of Atlanta, GA. I thought that's where ALPS came from. You may try to contact them and find out. I can't say if one is any better than the other. All I have seen is the ALPS. Are you going to use some sort of self-threading concrete lag bolt for the stairs-to-wall connection? It's a shame you cant get the existing stairs clean, I wonder if there is a coating out there that would to refinish them?
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

janthony said:
Don't quote me because I am not sure, but all my pool materials came from "Associated Leisure Products" outside of Atlanta, GA. I thought that's where ALPS came from. You may try to contact them and find out. I can't say if one is any better than the other. All I have seen is the ALPS. Are you going to use some sort of self-threading concrete lag bolt for the stairs-to-wall connection? It's a shame you cant get the existing stairs clean, I wonder if there is a coating out there that would to refinish them?
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Even with refinishing, the stairs are still that 1970's era bubbly design. For the price, its probably worth it to just get a new set of stairs and not worry about it anymore. As far as bolting to the wall, I'm not really sure how they're attached. I see more pressure treated lumber between my existing stairs and the concrete walls, but I don't know if the stairs are actually bolted in at all. Did you have to bolt yours in or are they simply held in place by the support legs and backfilling?
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

My stairs are bolted to the steel side walls of the pool. I think you'll definitely need to bolt in somehow. I've used concrete bolts in floors before that you drill a hole slightly smaller that the bolt and then install just like any other bolt and the hardened threads cut their way in. They are then removeable if necessary. I used to mount a large air compressor to shop floor and they worked great.
 

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Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

One problem you may have is the measurement between the walls. The steps will be made to an exact measurement and it isn't likely to match your rough opening after you remove wood.
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Ill be using hundreds of masonry screws (same method) to install the liner track. Where was the bolt located on your stairs if you dont mind me asking? Somewhere to the outside of the gasket and faceplate? I haven't found anywhere the existing stairs could be bolted in, but then again, I haven't dug them out and really tried to remove them yet. I suspect that the bolts in your stairs have more to do with adding stability to the steel walls than anchoring the stairs in. The poured walls are certainly not going anywhere, and a properly backfilled set of stairs should be held in place pretty well all on their own. Still if I have teh option to secure it somehow, I'll be sure to do so.

As for the rough opening, its just a hair over 97 inches. The stairs themselves are about 93 inches or so. The 2x6 fills the gaps. Im sure I can shim the stairs out with composite lumber or some other material to close the gap. Im not too worried about that part.

Thanks again
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Reading the directions, it looks like Ill have to bolt it in from underneath. Guess Ill be doing a lot of digging in order to get myself under there.

http://www.quakerplastic.com/downloads/thermoplastic-stairs/stair-installation-instructions.pdf

Maybe another option is to affix angle iron to the stairs first, and then face drill and bolt the angle iron to the cement walls. I might have to notch the walls out to get it to mount flush, but that sounds a lot easier than digging an extra 5 cubic yards by hand.
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

I just wanted to say I think it's great that people are rehabilitating these old pools! I love watching! Keep the pics coming!!! :cool:
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

GuitsBoy said:
Reading the directions, it looks like Ill have to bolt it in from underneath. Guess Ill be doing a lot of digging in order to get myself under there.

Yeah that's what I meant by a doozie to change out! Bolts are on the side flanges from the backside.
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Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

after getting down and dirty for some better measurements, it appears that the distance between concrete walls (where the stairs sit) is 99 inches. The stairs are exactly 96 inches, and the difference is made up by 2x6 lumber (1.5" actual thickness) on either side of the stairs. The lumber appears to be nailed into the cement walls, and then the existing stairs are screwed into the wood.

Even once I have this all dug out, I dont think Im going to get myself under the stairs to bolt them in - at least not without trenching out another 2 feet in every direction.

In stead, I plan to source some composite 2x2 (1.5 x 1.5 true dimensions) lumber. I will use masonry screws to affix the 2x2 vertically along the inner edge of the side of the cement walls. I will then attach another vertical 2x2 to the side of the stairs, set back 1.5 inches from the face. I can then slide the stairs downward in place. The two 2x2s will line up, and I can face drill and screw them together. It's essentially a lap joint where one piece is affixed to the pool walls and the other piece is affixed to the stairs.

Now the only problem is tracking down some 1.5 x 1.5 composite stock. Worst case scenario, I use aluminum square tubing instead.
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Did some more work over the last week. Cut through all the bolts and freed up the stairs, although I've left them in place for the time being. And I did find some composite deck balusters which are 1-3/8 x 1-3/8 x 36 inches. Those should work pretty well to attach to the sides. Once I'm ready to replace the stairs, I still have quite a bit of digging to do in order to get the new stair support legs down in place. The new stairs should arrive tuesday or wednesday this week.

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Also got nearly all the liner out of the pool. Once I finally drain and shovel out the disgusting sludge, and can unscrew the main drain faceplate and remove the last bit of liner. Thankfully we got enough liner out of the way to do our measurements. And the builders were kind enough to leave scratches in the wall marking where each grade starts and stops, which made measuring a breeze. Ill have to do my final regrading after a good rain when the ground is nice and saturated, otherwise the sand just wont stay in place. Anyway, the new liner was indeed ordered this morning.

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I'm also trying to find out why the niche light isn't working. I replaced the GFCI outlet, which is getting power. The non contact voltage pen shows current at the switch, but not to the niche junction box. I'm hoping that its simply the switch, and not a break in the conduit.

I have a yard of fine sand along with the coping pavers being delivered today. I need to bring the shallow end up an inch or so, at least at the edges. Then once the sand is in, Ill remove the remaining wood boards and cut all the nails flush. Then hopefully next weekend I can begin laying the 2" cement block over the walls, and screw in the liner track.
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Got the last of the vinyl liner out earlier in the week. Finally received my pavers, sand and pool steps yesterday. Still waiting to hear about the liner, but I dont expect it for a while. I also got the O rings replaced in the filter and multiport. I just need to go through the pump to see how that's doing.

I am contemplating taking down a few hemlock trees that are either completely dead, or very nearly so. I figure these trees will likely come down themselves one way or another in the next couple years, so I might as well take them down while the liner is out.

Hopefully by this weekend, Ill be able to take down whatever trees need to come down as well as wheel the yard of sand into the shallow end. I will try and attack the stairs as well while I have family visiting (slave labor). I need to remove the old stairs, dig out channels for the new stair support legs, attach the stairs to the sides with composite 2x2, then pour cement to set the legs in, then backfill it all.

After all that, Ill still need to strip the walls of the remaining 2x6 lumber, cut down all the old concrete nails, lay the concrete block down, screw in the liner track, re-grade the sand hopper and finally start installing the liner. A lot of work left to do, but at least Ill be turning the corner from deconstruction to reconstruction.
 
Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Got a little bit of work done this weekend. We wound up taking 4 trees down in close proximity to the pool. Two of them had to be pulled directly into the pool, so I'm glad we did it now. I also took all the old sand from the deep end and shoveled it up to the shallow end, and then added a yard of fresh sand to the deep end. The fresh sand packs and holds a little better. We then pulled out the old stairs and dug out areas for the new stairs support legs. I need to mount the composite 2x2 to the stairs and walls before I can put the stairs into place and pour concrete around the legs. All the same, things are moving along nicely.
 

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