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Thread: Pool Gone Wild

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    Pool Gone Wild

    Okay so we moved into a new home with a salt pool. 17000 gal, Aqua Logic, Hayward 4 106 sqft filter cartridge. Pool looks great, get lots of rain, then one warm day and pool goes wild. We dont know about this thing, but in hindsight think it was begging for salt all along.

    So we have black, green, yellow, sludge for water in a matter of days. Take sample in and come home with a arm load of fixers. But no salt? I am missing the results from this day. But do have the chemicals asked to add....
    3lbs Green to Clean
    3lbs Chlor Brite
    wait 24 hrs
    3lbs Fresh n' Clean
    Cleaning filters before and after

    Water starts to look 85% better within 48hrs
    Results on 2nd testing, assumed pool was 14000gal
    Free Avail Chlor 0
    Total Avail Chlor 4
    Bromine X
    PH 8 (4)
    Alk ISO or does it say 150
    Cal Hard 200
    CYA 60
    Diss Solids X
    Cop/Iron X
    Phosphates X
    Salt 1400

    Sent home with 2lbs shock, wait 6 hours
    14oz Pool First Aid
    Still no Salt!
    Meanwhile cleaning filters like a trained monkey!

    48hrs later 3rd test results, still thinking 1400 gals
    Free Avail Chlor 1
    Total Avail Chlor 1
    Bromine X
    PH 7.8 (3)
    Alk ISO or 150
    Cal Hard 200
    CYA 60
    Diss Solids X
    Cop/Iron X
    Phosphates X
    Salt 1500 but didnt add salt?

    Sent home with
    Muric Acid add 3 cups
    1lb Shock
    4 bags salt

    Again cleaning filters, manual vac., scrub, soaking/cleaning cell, the works... Start thinking, okay this cant be right, we need more salt!

    Meanwhile the Generator is happier, starts to work and says salt is increasing. We also start to do our own math and pool is more like 17000 gals. Pump has been on 24/7 during this whole mess. Generator is running at 80%

    So 24 hrs later, with rain on it's way, I decide that I am not waiting the 48hrs we need salt! So more test results...today

    Free Avail Chlor 0 Consider all of the shock and what I put in less then 24hrs ago
    Total Avail Chlor 0
    Bromine X
    PH 7.6 (nothing written here)
    Alk 100
    Cal Hard 200
    CYA 80
    Diss Solids X
    Cop/Iron X
    Phosphates X
    Salt 2500 Yes!! We are getting somewhere

    Sent home with 2 more bags of Salt, 8lbs each. Add salt and generator jumps to 2900 within hours. And 3 lbs Shock which I have not done. Thinking let salt and generator do it thing? Or save til after this rain headed our way?

    Current water condition... We are a bit cloudy. No real sign of algae gone nuts, but can see some light brown specks on walls and feels slimy to touch.

    They tried to tell me my 2.5 y/o filters are not working, but they are white when washed and had no issues taking on the excessive vacuuming I have been doing. Also tried to talk about the Phosphate Free program, although I have no phosphates and really just wanted to see the bottom of the pool and need to get water in shape first. Took my auto vac in to look at and needed 100 in parts, um no did it on the net for 40$, score for the little giy! The cell has been tested fine. Water temp per box is 70, outside 80

    So I am still buying my chemicals from the big man and having water tested there. I want several things, one get this under control even if it means spending more there and two to learn to do this on my own so I can save money via the net or discount stores...

    Are we on the right track? Can you see something we should be doing?

    Thanks!!!
    19.k gal Gunite SWG

  2. Back To Top    #2
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Welcome to TFP!

    You need to be careful with Chlor Brite. Chlor Brite is dichlor, which contains CYA, which is why your CYA level has been rising. The higher the CYA gets the more difficult it will be to keep your water in good condition. With CYA at 80 you are still alright, but nearing the upper limit. Don't use anymore Chlor Brite.

    Fresh 'N Clear is a non-chlorine oxidizer, which is not so bad, but also significantly more expensive than several of the other options.

    You are already at about the right salt level, but you should know that there are far less expensive ways to buy salt (assuming you paid what I think you paid). 40 lb bags of salt can be had for around $5 (varies a little from area to area).

    Green to Clean can be a real problem sometimes, though it does have it's uses. The main issue is that it creates a huge chlorine demand, which will take the SWG a very long time to catch up with. Because of that you need to add dramatic amounts of additional chlorine until the SWG is able to maintain a FC level on it's own.

    I suggest that you bring the PH down to about 7.2 by adding 7 cups of muriatic acid. Then add 5 1/2 gallons of 6% unscented bleach (liquid chlorine) in the evening and if you don't have a test kit add that much bleach again the next evening. If you do have a test kit, test the water and add enough bleach to bring the FC level up to 20.

    It might take the filter up to a week to clear the water once the algae is dead.

    I strongly suggest you get a good test kit and stop relying on the pool store. The TF Test Kit, see the link in my signature, is a wonderful test kit, and the Taylor K-2006 is also good. A good test kit is the best investment in your pool you can make.

    You also should start reading some of the stickies, see the link in the sub-heading of every page or in my signature.

    Keep us posted on how things go!
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3
    First, quit relying on the info the pool store is SELLING you. You can get this clear with a bit of reading and some basic household products!!

    Secondly, you are in totally the right place for the best info on the best (and cheapest!!) pool care method!!

    1. Read the Stickies, linked in my signature.
    2. Order a good test kit, like the TF100 or Taylor K2006, and take your pool into your own hands.
    3. buy stock in clorox!

    Just kidding about #3, but that is all it will take to clear up your pool... well, that and some patience!

    You need to shock your pool with bleach, and let your SWG rest for now. It is best not to try to clear up a mess with your SWG, as it just wears out the cell.

    Jason's calculator, also in my signature, will help you determine the right amounts of chemicals to add.

    1. Keep your pH 7.2-7.4 to aid in the destruction of the algae
    2. Keep your FC in the proper shock range for your CYA (see Jason's calculator) until the water is crystal clear and you can keep FC overnight
    3. Stop relying on the pool store... their whole job is to SELL YOU STUFF that you may or may not need!!! In your case, not!

    Welcome to TFP!!!!!

    8000 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, 12" sand filter (don't have the specs on the pump), TF100 test kit
    Handy Links: PoolMath, TF-100 Test Kit, Pool School, CYA-Chlorine Chart
    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

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    That's an excellent post! Welcome to the forum. There's lots of good folks here who will help you get that pool clear with the least amount of money possible. You have been thorough in explaining what you've done to this point and that's extremely helpful.

    There's a section entitled "The Stickies" just under the title in the home page. Read "BBB......" first and then "Clearing a green swamp......." next.

    First off, you need more chlorine in your pool. Don't count on your SWG to provide the high levels you need to get your pool clear, you'll want to supplement it with liquid chlorine (Clorox bleach works about the best)to "shock" your pool and kill any remaining algae.

    I would suggest you purchase at least ten of the big jugs of 6% unscented Clorox bleach from Wal-mart, Sam's club, etc. and pour 5 of them in your pool as soon as you get them home. That'll bring your chlorine up to about 25ppm but be ready to put in some more as it will be consumed by the remaining algae pretty quickly at first. Then, keep you chlorine at that high level by testing and adding more as often as you can until your pool turns crystal clear.

    That method will quickly bring you to the realization that you need a test kit that allows you to test chlorine to at least 20-30ppm and that's where my conflict of interest comes in because I sell a kit that will do that. My TF-100 and the Taylor K-2006 are the two best residential test kits on the market. Either one will make this process as painless as possible. I hope you choose mine but everyone here (me, too) will give you the same good advice to clear your pool regardless.

    There's tons to read and it will be a bit confusing at first but this will probably be the most helpful, courteous bunch of folks you'll ever run in to. Keep us involved with lots of questions and, hopefully, you'll send us some pics when your pool is crystal clear.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Okay I have not put the shock in and will return it to the store, as I am at the top on acid. It sounds like they are giving me things that fight eachother. As far as giving my cell a rest, it has just now started to work since our salt was so low it was not even on. Now the salt is up to 2900. SO can I leave it on and still shock with your rec of Chlorine? I am going with this as I am sure you are right and my gut has told me they are selling me a line. Do I really put Chlorox in? How much?

    As for a test kit, I need something I can get quick...any store bought that can tide me over til the other arrive?
    19.k gal Gunite SWG

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    Okay a reply came up while typing this...I will go read it...if it answers my questions please disreguard
    19.k gal Gunite SWG

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    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    That method will quickly bring you to the realization that you need a test kit that allows you to test chlorine to at least 20-30ppm and that's where my conflict of interest comes in because I sell a kit that will do that. My TF-100 and the Taylor K-2006 are the two best residential test kits on the market. Either one will make this process as painless as possible. I hope you choose mine but everyone here (me, too) will give you the same good advice to clear your pool regardless.

    There's tons to read and it will be a bit confusing at first but this will probably be the most helpful, courteous bunch of folks you'll ever run in to. Keep us involved with lots of questions and, hopefully, you'll send us some pics when your pool is crystal clear.
    I will definately purchase these kits! In the meantime I need something store bought to maintain my sanity during this process, it is taking everything in me to pour clorox in the pool LOL But I will....with my eyes closed.

    Should I leave my cell on? it just came back to life today after getting enough salt so it is hardly tired.
    19.k gal Gunite SWG

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Welcome to TFP!

    I suggest that you bring the PH down to about 7.2 by adding 7 cups of muriatic acid. Then add 5 1/2 gallons of 6% unscented bleach (liquid chlorine) in the evening and if you don't have a test kit add that much bleach again the next evening. If you do have a test kit, test the water and add enough bleach to bring the FC level up to 20.

    Keep us posted on how things go!
    Okay so I should add the Muric Acid to bring the PH down despite my CYA being 80? Or are these even the same thing? I did add 3 cups late last night and had the test done this AM.
    19.k gal Gunite SWG

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Just turn your cell off for now. Since you are chocking with bleach, you don't need to run the cell. After you get your water clear an balanced, THEN you can turn your cell back on.

    Muriatic acid has no effect on CYA. Cyanuric Acid (CYA) is stabilizer, sort of like sunscreen for your pool. It helps keep the chlorine in the water so it can do its job and sanitize the water. As far as pH, chlorine is more effective at lower pH range, which is why it has been suggested you lower yours.

    most SWG's recommend 60-80 for CYA lever, so you are topped out there. Refer to your manual for specifics, but avoid all forms of stabilized chlorine (dichlor, trichlor, pucks) from here on out. We so heartlily recommend bleach because it add the very same chlorine without a bunch of stuff you don't want or need..

    Get the bleach as suggested... you are on the right track now! If you have to go to the pool store for a test, just get the test, and resist the urge to buy anything they suggest!! Then come here, post your results, and we will guide you thru it!!

    8000 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, 12" sand filter (don't have the specs on the pump), TF100 test kit
    Handy Links: PoolMath, TF-100 Test Kit, Pool School, CYA-Chlorine Chart
    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

  10. Back To Top    #10
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    CYA and PH are unrelated. Yes, you should add acid to bring the PH down. For right now the desired PH is anything from 7.0 to 7.4. Long term you will want PH to be a little higher, 7.2 to 7.8, but right now it should be low so the chlorine can be maximally effective.

    You really want a good test kit, but that means a shipping delay. TF Test Kits ships fairly quickly. For right this moment: WalMart has a good test kit, the fanciest one they have, typically around $20. It was called the Pool and Spa Test Kit the last time I looked for it. You want the one with liquids by drops not the one with test strips, that tests PH, TC, TA, CH, and CYA. If you can't find that get one of the cheap test kits that measure chlorine and PH, which anyone with any pool stuff should have.

    Yes, you really use standard household bleach, Clorox or any other brand. Look carefully at the percentage, you want 6% or higher if possible. Some pool stores sell 10% or even 12.5% as liquid chlorine. The cheap store brands are often lower percentages, which are not usually a good deal.

    You can leave the SWG on, or turn it off for now. I would leave it on, other recommend to turn it off. I like to leave it on because that speed up clearing up the pool. Others like to turn it off since it can make it more difficult to tell if you have killed all the algae. Either way is essentially fine for the SWG.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mermaid Queen
    Just turn your cell off for now. Since you are chocking with bleach, you don't need to run the cell. After you get your water clear an balanced, THEN you can turn your cell back on.

    Muriatic acid has no effect on CYA. Cyanuric Acid (CYA) is stabilizer, sort of like sunscreen for your pool. It helps keep the chlorine in the water so it can do its job and sanitize the water. As far as pH, chlorine is more effective at lower pH range, which is why it has been suggested you lower yours.

    most SWG's recommend 60-80 for CYA lever, so you are topped out there. Refer to your manual for specifics, but avoid all forms of stabilized chlorine (dichlor, trichlor, pucks) from here on out. We so heartlily recommend bleach because it add the very same chlorine without a bunch of stuff you don't want or need..

    Get the bleach as suggested... you are on the right track now! If you have to go to the pool store for a test, just get the test, and resist the urge to buy anything they suggest!! Then come here, post your results, and we will guide you thru it!!
    Okay on my way out the door to buy more stuff. I will go to another pool store where they dont see the Sucker stamp on my forehead, even though it isnt there, for the test. Remember my Vac "needed" 100$ in repairs!! Um try 40$ on the net I am blindly adding these things guys, so I am trusting you. This pregnant lady is about to blow the whole darn thing up! LOL
    19.k gal Gunite SWG

  12. Back To Top    #12
    One last thing...if you are out there. How do I lower PH? Off to research it unless you pop in sooner than I find an answer.
    19.k gal Gunite SWG

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Just kidding, duh, found it
    19.k gal Gunite SWG

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    texaspoolnewbie,

    I can have you a kit tomorrow at your house but the shipping is not cheap......$38.00 as opposed to 8.50 for four day service. The cost of the kit is 68.00. My shipper is scheduled to pick up in the next 30 minutes, tho, so you'll need to decide. PM me if you want it to happen.

    PS - to other members, I don't like to (and don't think I should) conduct business on the forum. This will be a rare occurrence.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  15. Back To Top    #15
    IkeRay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    PS - to other members, I don't like to (and don't think I should) conduct business on the forum. This will be a rare occurrence.
    yeah, for as long as ive been here, i have seen you suggest a good test kit, but you dont push your product. you suggest your product and say that the taylor kit is also a good alternative, which i find refreshing.

    OP, trust these guys, they got my algae infested pool from frogs enjoying the green to sparkling blue in just under a weeks time. it may sound odd, but check at the pool store, they carry sodium hypochlorite, and then read the side of the clorox bottle in your laundry room...same chemical. the pool stores typically carry 10-12% bleach while the grocery store carries the 5.5-6% variety, but it is very effective and much cheaper. can be had for $1.25-1.40/gal, lets see you buy pucks for that cheap, as well as having to replace your water because of your climbing CYA.

    dont trust the pool store's test. if you must get your water tested at a pool store, find one that uses a good test kit and get it tested at more than one store (they are free). i like to use my local pool store for secondary tests because they use the taylor 2006 kit, which apparently is one of the best. do not, i repeat, do not go to warehouse pool supply to get your water tested. they never seem to replace their chemicals. i was told that my CYA was 250+ and that i needed to drain 90% of my water (or something outrageous). after draining 20% i went back and got the same CYA reading. took it to leslie's and they told me my CYA was a touch low, 25-30ppm, and told me to leave it. wps is ok for parts and accessories as they typically are the cheapest, but they have too many young kids working the tests and never seem to replace the reagents.

    any of you pros, sorry for a slight hi-jack, but do you know much about the pool first aid, like what chemical is in it and/or why they feel to push it?
    30,000gal In-ground Gunite Pool DE filter
    Polaris 380 APC

    BBB method all the way - Newb, like to absorb info and chatter, but take the experts' advise

  16. Back To Top    #16
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Pool First Aid is a combination of an enzyme product and a clarifier. Enzymes help break down organics that chlorine is sometimes slow to deal with and the clarifier causes small particles to clump together so they are easier for the filter to catch.

    It isn't usually worth using either of these with algae. It is much simpler and less expensive to wait the several days to let the filter deal with things. If you are in a great hurry I would try a flock treatment instead of Pool First Aid, though it is more work.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Sorry I didnt catch the express offer for the test kit before I bailed today, Thanks so much for trying!

    I did the bleach, did the acid for Ph and am waiting it out.

    I pinned down the Leslie's Guy and made him tell me it was okay to use Bleach and would work I also made him tell me that my CYA jumped 20points b/c of that darned Chlorbrite stuff My pcoketbook is ****** with all the money I spent, but it was a learning experience and quite frankly got me 90% there. Anybody want some expensive useless Chemicals, still have 1/2 the bottle on some

    Should I address the CYA of 80 now, later or just hang tight and deal with it if it rises?
    19.k gal Gunite SWG

  18. Back To Top    #18
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    As long as you stop using products that add CYA you will be fine at 80. The CYA level will come down very slowly because of splash out and backwashing (if you have a sand or DE filter).
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  19. Back To Top    #19
    IkeRay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texaspoolnewbie
    Sorry I didnt catch the express offer for the test kit before I bailed today, Thanks so much for trying!

    I did the bleach, did the acid for Ph and am waiting it out.

    I pinned down the Leslie's Guy and made him tell me it was okay to use Bleach and would work I also made him tell me that my CYA jumped 20points b/c of that darned Chlorbrite stuff My pcoketbook is ****** with all the money I spent, but it was a learning experience and quite frankly got me 90% there. Anybody want some expensive useless Chemicals, still have 1/2 the bottle on some

    Should I address the CYA of 80 now, later or just hang tight and deal with it if it rises?
    you didnt happen to pick up any POP (pool owner patience) while you were out?

    you really got the leslie's guy to admit that the liquid chlorine they sell is the same as bleach...very ballsy.
    30,000gal In-ground Gunite Pool DE filter
    Polaris 380 APC

    BBB method all the way - Newb, like to absorb info and chatter, but take the experts' advise

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by IkeRay
    Quote Originally Posted by texaspoolnewbie
    Sorry I didnt catch the express offer for the test kit before I bailed today, Thanks so much for trying!

    I did the bleach, did the acid for Ph and am waiting it out.

    I pinned down the Leslie's Guy and made him tell me it was okay to use Bleach and would work I also made him tell me that my CYA jumped 20points b/c of that darned Chlorbrite stuff My pcoketbook is ****** with all the money I spent, but it was a learning experience and quite frankly got me 90% there. Anybody want some expensive useless Chemicals, still have 1/2 the bottle on some

    Should I address the CYA of 80 now, later or just hang tight and deal with it if it rises?
    you didnt happen to pick up any POP (pool owner patience) while you were out?

    you really got the leslie's guy to admit that the liquid chlorine they sell is the same as bleach...very ballsy.
    well apparently they dont sell Liquid Chlorine here in TX? I find that very odd and wonder if it is a Leslie's thing so they can peddle their own products. Seeing as how you are in TX, I find it even more interesting. Hmmmm....
    19.k gal Gunite SWG

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