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Thread: Got a few questions about my new kit

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    Got a few questions about my new kit

    Hey Dave,
    The kit was waiting on me at home last night, thanks for the fast turnaround of the order!
    I tried the 'quicktest' on my tap (well water w/acid reducer system and softening system); I got zero Chlorine of course, and 7.2 pH. Now I'm ready to do the full test on my spa (which is active, has been all winter), and also my pool (which I want to begin opening Saturday). As I said earlier, I'm going from Baq to BBB, so wish me luck
    Anyway, I had a couple of quick questions that came up last night...I see on the Chlorine Drop Test that I need to use the R-870 powder, mix, then add R-871 one drop at a time. That gives my FC. Then, step 5 says to add 5 drops of R-0003 to the solution and swirl to check for CC -- Question 1: Do I add the 5 drops to the solution that already has the R-871 in it? Or do I get new water for step 5?
    Question 2: On the Calcium Hardness test, it mentions that if the pool water contains copper, add 2 drops of R-0012 prior to adding R-0011L...How do I know if my water contains copper?
    Question 3: Since I'm opening my pool Saturday, and will be going to BBB from Baquacil (even though I've added no Baq since late October), what do I do each hour or two when I test to see if I need more BBB? The Quicktest, or the full gamut of tests?
    I know these are newbie questions, but I do appreciate your time.
    Todd
    P.S. I will try to test the pool water tonight and post results in the BBB thread, to see if anyone sees any potential issues for the Saturday BBB 'blitzkrieg.'
    Todd
    --------------
    Pool: 16x36, 16,800 gal., vinyl, sand filter, SWG & AquaCal Heat Pump
    Spa: Hot Springs Sovereign, 355 gal., ozone/ion
    The most helpful tool you'll ever have for your pool:
    http://www.poolcalculator.com/

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    Question 1. Add it to the existing pool sample that already has R-871 in it

    Question 2. Assume you don't have copper. It's almost surely not in there unless you put it in. You could be extra-thorough and take a sample to a pool store that tests for copper (many don't) or you could purchase a copper test from Taylor. I would consider both of those as overkill.

    Question 3. The quicktest (OTO) will only measure up to 5ppm and you will be measuring chlorine much higher than that so you need to perform the FAS/DPD test for Free Chlorine (skip the CC test for now).

    Prior to your chlorine dosage, adjust your pH into the 7.0-7.6 range and that's the only other test you'll need to make. You'll have no CYA, disregard Alk for now, disregard CH for now.

    The important part of this conversion (just to review) is to remember to keep your chlorine high by frequent testing (FAS/DPD) and additons of more chlorine.

    PS - Thanks for ordering the kit.....glad you got it quickly...that's our goal.

    A possible note of caution.....reading between the lines of your post, it seems you might be thinking in terms of a 12-24 hour conversion.....probably not. Most conversions seem to take 48 hours on average and can take longer. Keeping the chlorine at high levels and constantly replenishing it will make the conversion as short as possible
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3
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    Re: Got a few questions about my new kit

    Quote Originally Posted by tnthudson
    Hey Dave,
    The kit was waiting on me at home last night, thanks for the fast turnaround of the order!
    I tried the 'quicktest' on my tap (well water w/acid reducer system and softening system); I got zero Chlorine of course, and 7.2 pH. Now I'm ready to do the full test on my spa (which is active, has been all winter), and also my pool (which I want to begin opening Saturday). As I said earlier, I'm going from Baq to BBB, so wish me luck
    Anyway, I had a couple of quick questions that came up last night...I see on the Chlorine Drop Test that I need to use the R-870 powder, mix, then add R-871 one drop at a time. That gives my FC. Then, step 5 says to add 5 drops of R-0003 to the solution and swirl to check for CC -- Question 1: Do I add the 5 drops to the solution that already has the R-871 in it? Or do I get new water for step 5?

    You add the R-0003 to the tube that you just tested for FC. IF there is any CC present it will turn pink again and you titrate again to get the CC reading. If it does not turn pink then you have no CC and you are done. Don't let the test sit since a pink color will develop if you do, but this is not valid. Just add the powder, titrate until colorless, add the R-0003 and if it turns pink immediately titrate again. Pretty simple really!

    Question 2: On the Calcium Hardness test, it mentions that if the pool water contains copper, add 2 drops of R-0012 prior to adding R-0011L...How do I know if my water contains copper?

    This test might not change clearly from pink to blue but turn purple, this is commony called a 'floating endpoint'. One of the reasons this happens is because of metals in the water. The other reason this happens is by NOT swirling the vial long enough between each drop of titrant. You should swirl the vial for about 20 seconds between each drop (I know, this takes a long time but it is the proper way to do this test). If you still get the purple color or purple 'floaties' then add from 2-6 drops of R-0012 BEFORE adding either the first reagent, R-0010 or the indicator solution, r-0011L. Swirl, and then proceed with the test. Be sure to count the drops of titrant added at the beginning (i.e., you add 6 drops of R-0012, then add your R-0010, swirl, R-0011L, swirl, and then titrate with R-0012 until the color changes. This takes 16 more drops for a total of 22 drops. If you used a 25 ml sample then this means your calcium hardness is 220 ppm

    Question 3: Since I'm opening my pool Saturday, and will be going to BBB from Baquacil (even though I've added no Baq since late October), what do I do each hour or two when I test to see if I need more BBB? The Quicktest, or the full gamut of tests?

    If there is any biguanide or peroxide in your water you will need a LOT of chlorine. Your pool will turn all kinds of yucky shades of green and brown until all the biguanide is destroyed. You will also need to replace your filter medium once you are done with the conversion (for a sand filter replace the sand, for a cartridge filter get a new cart, for a DE filter break it down, clean and soak the grids, and recharge it with DE. THIS step is very important!)
    I would use the quick testbut I would dilute the pool water sample with distilled water, 1part pool water and 2 parts distilled and test that. Multiply your test reults by three to get your total chlorine You want to maintain about 15 ppm at all times but since you have a vinyl pool you really don't want to go higher. . YOu can use the FAS-DPD test once or twice a day to see just how my CC there is and make sure that you are in the ballpark with the quick test but I recommend the quick test j because you will need to test the chlorine several time a day and keep adding more until the conversion is complete. This can take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks, depending on how diligent you are at maintaining the chlorine levels in the water. As an alternative you can use sodium percarbonate to 'burn off' the biguanide. The only place you can get this chemical for pool use is Proteam System Support. It is a very expensive way to convert but it works quicker than chlorine, usually in about 48 hours or so. If you are interested in how to do this ask and I will post the instructions but it is going to cost a LOT more than using chlorine. You still need to replace the filter medium after conversion.

    I know these are newbie questions, but I do appreciate your time.
    Todd
    P.S. I will try to test the pool water tonight and post results in the BBB thread, to see if anyone sees any potential issues for the Saturday BBB 'blitzkrieg.'
    You might also want to take some time to read the posts in the Baquacil area of the forum.
    GOOD LUCK! HTH

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Evan,

    I am reluctant to suggest the OTO dilution method for a couple of reasons:

    1. For a newbie, that can often be somewhat confusing.....not likely, but you and I have both seen it happen.

    2. I have tried the dilution method twice and found it wildly innaccurate. It may be just me but I found about a 2-1 diluition to be marginally OK and anything greater than that (3-1, 4-1, etc) to be almost worthless.

    3. (and this is MOST important) IT KILLS MY REFILL BUSINESS!!! How can I be expected to make my Lexus payments on time if we don't encourage folks to consume chemistry?

    4. (for those of you from Rio Linda, #3 is a joke. If you don't get it, PM me and I'll s-l-o-w-l-y PM it back to you)
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Thanks to both of you for the info. I do figure this will take several days (at least), so I'm going to try to maybe sneak out early tomorrow and get started. I get so much good info. from here, I've been printing alot of it out to reference this weekend (including your latest answers); my wife's been telling people I have a book on this stuff!
    I WAS going to ask about test kit refills, especially since it looks like the CYA bottle may go through some reagent, if I did much testing on it...so I'm glad to know I can get refills from the same place I got the kit. Lexus, huh? that's funny!
    I WAS wondering about getting the pH in range, is that something that can be corrected in the first part of the day Saturday, so I can start Chlorine later in the first day? Or is there a 'wait period' after correction before I can get a good reading?
    I'm hoping I'm already in range, but I'll know more after tonight.
    thanks again
    Todd
    --------------
    Pool: 16x36, 16,800 gal., vinyl, sand filter, SWG & AquaCal Heat Pump
    Spa: Hot Springs Sovereign, 355 gal., ozone/ion
    The most helpful tool you'll ever have for your pool:
    http://www.poolcalculator.com/

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    One comment on what the others said. During the the conversion the CC level will tend to be significant. That makes the quick chlorine test problematic, since what you care about is the FC level and the quick test only measures TC (which is FC plus CC). If you do use the full test, you will go through a lot of the FAS-DPD reagents. Some people have reported using up the entire amount in the TF Test Kit during their conversions.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Some people have reported using up the entire amount in the TF Test Kit during their conversions.
    Jason, you bring tears of joy to my eyes!!

    Todd, If you need to lower pH, muriatic is very, very quick. Poured slowly in front of a return (pump running) it should distribute and test pretty darn close in an hour or so.

    If you need to raise it, (I doubt it) Borax could take a little longer.....I haven't raised mine in five years so I can't remember how long it takes. My guess would be in three-four hours you should be ok. Put it into the skimmer, pump running.


    Seriously, the R-871 reagent is 30 ml and it seems to me I remember about 20-30 drops/ml so you should have about 750 drops. So, if you're averaging 12ppm/ test, that's about 30+ tests.

    Probably, a day into the conversion, you will get a feel for what's going on and won't have to test nearly as often as your first day.

    PS - If you could get your first dose of chlorine in there Friday evening, you would get the most bang for your buck. Remember, the Sun will destroy a significant amount of your chlorine so you get better use of it by applying as much as you can at night.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    gotcha, Dave!

    BTW, if I could ask one other thing, it just hit me...I have a Legend Platinum vac., I used it ALOT at the beginning last year to vac. the green off my walls & floors...should I run that before beginning the Chlorine conversion, or during, or wait till after?
    Thanks again everyone!
    Todd
    --------------
    Pool: 16x36, 16,800 gal., vinyl, sand filter, SWG & AquaCal Heat Pump
    Spa: Hot Springs Sovereign, 355 gal., ozone/ion
    The most helpful tool you'll ever have for your pool:
    http://www.poolcalculator.com/

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Two options on vacuuming....

    One is to use your auto vac.....you'll be backwashing that sand filter VERY frequently as the baqua gives up the ghost.

    Second choice, if you have plenty of cheap water, is to manually vac to "waste". That'll save all the backwashing but will really suck the water out of your pool.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    ok cool, thanks Dave. I'm going to start another thread for converting to BBB, I just took my pH (7.5). Thanks again!
    Todd
    --------------
    Pool: 16x36, 16,800 gal., vinyl, sand filter, SWG & AquaCal Heat Pump
    Spa: Hot Springs Sovereign, 355 gal., ozone/ion
    The most helpful tool you'll ever have for your pool:
    http://www.poolcalculator.com/

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