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Thread: hayward valve backwashing all the time!

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    hayward valve backwashing all the time!

    I backwashed our filter today, and after returning the haward vari-flo valve to the filter position, it seemed to be working fine. Later, I happened to be in front of the house where our backwash piping dumps into a storm sewer, and there was still water coming out. I went back to the pump, it was running empty, and the pool had drained down below the skimmer. What in the world?? Is it possible for those valves to fail such that the lever can be rotated, but the mechanism inside doesn't turn? Also, is that valve rebuildable, or is it easier to just replace it? The rotating lever has been VERY difficult to turn since we've been in the house (1 yr), and has gotten worse lately.
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Yes, that kind of failure is possible, though it isn't common. It is usually much easier to rebuild/replace any broken parts then it is to completely replace the valve. Have you been remembering to turn off the pump before changing the valve position?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    I've never even tried to move the valve with the pump running. Its hard enough to turn as it is. We had a re-plaster done last April with a pebble finish, and I think its been full of gravel ever since, which I sure did all kinds of good things for it!

    On that note, if I end up replacing it, is that type valve really necessary? I only use the backwash, waste, and filter positions on it, and I don't even know what the other positions are for. I've seen some slide-type valves that I've heard are less prone to problems. Any thoughts on that?
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    A push-pull valve only has filter and backwash, you will lose the waste position. If you have a DE filter it is very nice to have a multi-way valve because you really want to use the rinse position after each backwash. With the other two kinds of filters it is less important. Still, it is handy to have vacuum to waste for the rare situations where it is required and every once in a long while recirculate comes in handy.

    Multi-way valves are generally reliable. You do need to replace the spider gasket occasionally, but other than that they normally work without problems. Push-pull valves are slightly more reliable, their O-rings usually last longer than the spider gasket in a multi-way, but the difference is not dramatic.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    I hate to keep hitting you up, but I never have used the rinse or recirculate settings, what exactly do they do? I use waste quite a bit since our overflow pipe is plugged or broken and I always have to pump it out after a heavy rain.
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    Laff, I logged off before you started this thread last night. Sounds to me like the spider gasket (a/k/a wagon wheel) inside the multiport has warped or pinched or had a piece torn off of it which would result in an increasingly hard to turn handle and eventually the leak you describe. Replacing the gasket will most probably solve the problem (I think they're ~$15). Taking the top of the unit off is simple, just unscrew the nuts and bolts (6 - 10) and lift the handle to reveal the innards - you will probably see that the gasket is out of track in 1 or more places. If the tracks it sits in are fine, then so's the rest of the unit -- all you'd need is the replacement gasket and some silicone or teflon based lube to treat it before installing.

    There's a fair chance that the debris from the new plaster caused the problem, it got wedged between the gasket and the sealing plate and something had to give - usually the rubber gasket.

    The rinse position is for after backwashing, a ~20 second cycle removes the liberated debris which hasn't cleared the tank and multiport.

    The recirc position bypasses the filter which allows you to still keep the water moving in the pool if you need to open the filter to replace or fix something -- there are also times that you may need to add a chem to the pool but don't want to filter the chem out before it can do it's job (some stain treatments work better this way).
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Thanks a lot for the info. I actually pulled the top off the valve this morning and was surprised by how simple the mechanism was. It seemed that the shaft with the spring around it had gotten bound up and was stuck in the "up" position, as it would be if you pressed the handle down to turn the lever. I oiled it and got it to move up and down freely again thinking I had fixed it. When I re-installed the top though, the lever dropped again as I tightened up the screws, as if something was pushing up the black disc part (for lack of a better word) from below. To put it more simply, when the whole thing is back together the handle lays flat as it would be if you pushed down a properly working one. If you lift if up it will not move the mechanism, its just completely floppy. I will take it apart again to see if the gasket is popped out of its slot, as I guess with the small amount of travel that the mechanism has, the gasket would be enough to cause the problem??


    update: pulled it apart again, gasket looked perfect, nothing in the way that should be doing what I described above. Home warranty company (ugh) is sending a pool guy...
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    Pool company came out and replaced the guts of the hayward valve, but it started leaking where the piping goes into the valve body, so they ordered a whole new valve. The problem is, when they replaced it they put in a "Selecta flow" valve instead of the "Vari flow" that I had. Now I've only got four positions and have lost the rinse feature. I'm wondering if this is a big deal to lose? I've never used it, but since Waste so kindly explained what it was for it sounds pretty useful. One of the settings on the new valve is "pool or spa boost" which I don't have a clue when to use!
    I'm going to hit up the pool company to put back what I had, but I don't have much hope of getting anywhere with that.
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    Laff, hit them up! They did not replace the multi with the same/ or equivalent part that you had, causing you loss of a couple of useful functions that you used to have and now can not utilize. Talk to them and your insurance company and complain that you have lost the ability to maintain your pool the way you want to and were able to before the pool co. installed an inferior valve!

    I hope you can get the 'vari-flow' without a big hassle, but - you had a better valve, which happened to fail, and expect any replacement to have the same functionality as the original.
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    rinse setting on Hayward DE filter?

    I talked to the warranty company and at first they gladly agreed to come out and change the valve back to a 6 way. Today I got a voice mail from the guy saying that their boss wants to know why I need the rinse setting, as you typically don't use it with a DE filter?? Can anyone tell me if this is the case? The obvious answer here is hey, its none of your freakin' business, just give me back what I had! But I'd like to sound somewhat knowledgeable when I call back.

    Thanks!
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

  11. Back To Top    #11
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Rinse is never used with a cartridge filter and it is only really needed with a sand filter if you are using ZeoLite instead of sand. Rinse is really designed for the short period while you are coating the grids on a DE filter. After backwashing you have a mixture of left over DE and dirt in the chamber and the DE hasn't coated the grids yet. When the water first starts up some of the dirt will get through the grids before they become fully coated with DE. You run the system in rinse mode during this period so that any dirt that gets through goes to waste instead of into the pool. Zeolite in a sand filter can do something kind of similar, where a short pulse of zeo dust sometimes comes out right after a backwash.

    It isn't the end of the world to not have rinse. Only a tiny amount of dirt gets into the pool and it will get filtered out again. But keep after them. I am sure your policy states that they must replace with an equivalent unit and what they gave you isn't equivalent. Just keep after them. Eventually they will do it right. (Though there can be times when the hassle needed to get them to do it right isn't worth the trouble.)
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Thanks for the details. Now I won't sound like a complete idiot when I call him back. The policy is actually really vague, and these companies are terrible about giving you the bare minimum.
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Perhaps because of the techinique I use, my sand filter virtually requires the "rinse" position. When I backwash, I do so for about 1-2 minutes but then stop largely because of the terrific water loss I experience during backwash.

    Next, I need to go to "rinse" position for about 45 seconds to resettle the remaining dirt in the filter. If I do not, I get a really large plume of dirty water back into the pool that actually is large enough to dull the entire pool in just a minute or so.

    My assumption is I could probably prevent/minimize this by backwashing 'til the water exiting the filter is perfectly clear but that would represent more water loss than I am willing to accept.....probably 500+ gallons.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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