Well, looks like the problem was me and static. I wasn't wiping between drops.
Corrected results incoming...
Corrected results incoming...
1st time PO, testing huh!?!
- Thread starter Quinsee
- Start date
OK, just to recap the story until now.... you just relined and filled the pool. Then had some equipment issues and did not circulate right away. No green yet but the frogs are hopeful. You've added enough CYA to get to 30 ppm though you can't see it on test yet and you are adding chlorine daily, with a shock goal of FC 10. You added algaecide as a preventative until the pool is stable.
Right there, remind me why you are shocking... just because FC was 0 for some time? There is no visible algae but you are not holding chlorine readings yet? Both of those would be good reasons I just wanted to be sure. I think that once you get a FC reading that does not fall overnight and you have CC > 0.5 you probably do not need to shock unless it had turned green.
So, you may be almost ready to let the kids in. Not yet, but close.
Now, pH is rising rapidly and you want to know about TA levels. That TA level seems reasonable to me, in that this is a recently filled pool and my tap water has TA of 340, so 387 seems not far fetched to me (how do you get numbers that are not multiples of 10?). Do retest with wiping but it may still be very high.
To adjust TA there are two ways of doing it... the fast way and the slow way. The fast way is more trouble and if you mess up you may do harm to the liner. The slow way is just slow. And yes, rising pH is related to the waterfall, spillway and fountains as well as the high TA level.
So, to lower TA slowly, when the pool pH gets to 7.8 you calculate the volume of Muriatic Acid (MA) to lower it to 7.2. It is OK to swim in 7.2 (but 7.5 is more comfortable). Then monitor pH daily and repeat as needed. TA slowly lowers. You might see it go down 10ppm, maybe more or less.
To do it faster, use MA to lower to 7.0 and aerate the pool by whatever means possible. I run the spa bubbles and the waterfall, others have constructed a fountain or put aquarium air pumps to work. You need to be careful with this with vinyl for getting the pH too low can be a problem, actually in all pools but I think I'd be more careful with vinyl. Getting much below 7.0 is not recommended.
But, you don't have to worry about getting the TA adjusted fast unless the pH is a real issue for you and you want to not have to mess with MA every few days, but just get it over and done with. I've done it both ways having started with TA 180, at that level pH tended to go to 7.8 or 8.0 pretty fast. We swam with eyes open at 7.8 or so and had no problems so I don't know if going fast is worth the trouble. Now I just do it slowly, TA creeps up with every addition of water, I push it down with MA as needed when pH gets to 7.8+. My spa spillover and waterfall add a lot of aeration and that can drive pH up.
As for CH, that level seems to be fine. (Again, how do you get numbers that are not multiples of 10?)
Right there, remind me why you are shocking... just because FC was 0 for some time? There is no visible algae but you are not holding chlorine readings yet? Both of those would be good reasons I just wanted to be sure. I think that once you get a FC reading that does not fall overnight and you have CC > 0.5 you probably do not need to shock unless it had turned green.
So, you may be almost ready to let the kids in. Not yet, but close.
Now, pH is rising rapidly and you want to know about TA levels. That TA level seems reasonable to me, in that this is a recently filled pool and my tap water has TA of 340, so 387 seems not far fetched to me (how do you get numbers that are not multiples of 10?). Do retest with wiping but it may still be very high.
To adjust TA there are two ways of doing it... the fast way and the slow way. The fast way is more trouble and if you mess up you may do harm to the liner. The slow way is just slow. And yes, rising pH is related to the waterfall, spillway and fountains as well as the high TA level.
So, to lower TA slowly, when the pool pH gets to 7.8 you calculate the volume of Muriatic Acid (MA) to lower it to 7.2. It is OK to swim in 7.2 (but 7.5 is more comfortable). Then monitor pH daily and repeat as needed. TA slowly lowers. You might see it go down 10ppm, maybe more or less.
To do it faster, use MA to lower to 7.0 and aerate the pool by whatever means possible. I run the spa bubbles and the waterfall, others have constructed a fountain or put aquarium air pumps to work. You need to be careful with this with vinyl for getting the pH too low can be a problem, actually in all pools but I think I'd be more careful with vinyl. Getting much below 7.0 is not recommended.
But, you don't have to worry about getting the TA adjusted fast unless the pH is a real issue for you and you want to not have to mess with MA every few days, but just get it over and done with. I've done it both ways having started with TA 180, at that level pH tended to go to 7.8 or 8.0 pretty fast. We swam with eyes open at 7.8 or so and had no problems so I don't know if going fast is worth the trouble. Now I just do it slowly, TA creeps up with every addition of water, I push it down with MA as needed when pH gets to 7.8+. My spa spillover and waterfall add a lot of aeration and that can drive pH up.
As for CH, that level seems to be fine. (Again, how do you get numbers that are not multiples of 10?)
I just retested TA 3 more times (for practice and accuracy), wiping when I drip.
210
240
230
Average=227
I was averaging several tests on both TA and CH.
I tested with FAS/DPD again while testing TA. FC=12, CC=0. I'll test again in the morning and if I don't get loss of >1ppm, I'll cool my jets.
I think I'll take the slow method as I don't want to risk damage of any kind. If TA isn't a problem in my current range, I'll just work it down over time as required by pH.
Thank you for challenging me, Anona! While I'm not always 100% receptive to critical questions, you've helped me see several points I'd blindly latched on to.
You ROCK!
210
240
230
Average=227
anonapersona said:
I was averaging several tests on both TA and CH.
Honestly, I was under the impression that a shock cycle was standard fare for a startup. I'm not sure how I got that in my head, maybe because I started my knowledge in the Baquacil conversion threads.anonapersona said:
I tested with FAS/DPD again while testing TA. FC=12, CC=0. I'll test again in the morning and if I don't get loss of >1ppm, I'll cool my jets.
I've had my return breaking the surface since installing the pump. I'd read that the stabilizer would lower pH so I wanted to aerate to counteract it. That, and it helped keep the sock of stabilizer dancing. I wonder now if the rise in pH is mostly due to high TA and lots of aeration.anonapersona said:
I think I'll take the slow method as I don't want to risk damage of any kind. If TA isn't a problem in my current range, I'll just work it down over time as required by pH.
Thank you for challenging me, Anona! While I'm not always 100% receptive to critical questions, you've helped me see several points I'd blindly latched on to.
You ROCK!
FAS/DPD test at 6:45am returned FC=11.5, CC=0
With CYA at 30, I should keep FC around 4, but never drop below 2.
A little muriatic acid, get the top plates mounted and we should be ready to swim. What is the wait time after adding muriatic acid before it's safe to swim? No one will be getting in today, but we shouldn't have to wait 24hrs+ after, right? I'll look around the forum. I'm sure that's been answered before.
I think I'll need to invest in a nice graduated cylinder for measuring out chems. What do others use? Glass measuring cups/pitchers?
With CYA at 30, I should keep FC around 4, but never drop below 2.
A little muriatic acid, get the top plates mounted and we should be ready to swim. What is the wait time after adding muriatic acid before it's safe to swim? No one will be getting in today, but we shouldn't have to wait 24hrs+ after, right? I'll look around the forum. I'm sure that's been answered before.
I think I'll need to invest in a nice graduated cylinder for measuring out chems. What do others use? Glass measuring cups/pitchers?
You ought to allow about an hour of circulation following addition of chemicals before swimming. Slowly pour liquid chemicals over a return. Dry chemicals either broadcast and brush or mix in water or in sock as directed.
Also, allow about 30 minutes between additions of chlorine and MA -- the product of mixing is "mustard gas" if I recall correctly.
I have a quart size plastic measuring cup that is dedicated to pool use. Don't have glass around the pool, a basic pool rule. Along with the rule that says don't store bleach and MA where should both leak at the same time they might mix.
Keep good records of what you test, what you add, and what the goal is. Over time you will learn how fast pH typically changes and how much acid you typically use.
As TA drifts downward, you need to re-calculate the MA needed since if TA is 30% lower then you need 30% less MA for the same pH change, you don't want to keep adding X cups only to find that this volume eventually drops pH way too low for safety.
Also from your records you will learn that your pool typically needs Y cups of bleach every day or Z cups every other day so if it suddenly needs more for awhile then you need to do a full test and maybe brush the pool more of clean the filter or something. Chlorine usage is akin to MPG on your car, it can be diagnostic. You hope to get to a sweet spot where you can predict that you need just so much bleach on a regular schedule. You will still test and monitor but it is nice to sometimes know that it is OK to just put 3 Qts in the pool and test next time.
And, you must be burning though the reagents at this rate. I know I did at first. You will get comfortable with the procedures soon and won't need to do that. Do re-order reagents in time though, no need to run all over town when they can be delivered to your door cheaper. Realize that the margin of error is going to be one drop, so don't stress over small differences. Your records will tell you if that small difference is valid.
Yes, with CYA at 30 your FC range is 2 to 4 ppm. That is only a 2 ppm difference and it may be that your pool drops by that every day, so you may prefer to follow the Pool Calculator and use the 2 -6ppm range. In my pool, 1 big jug was exactly 4 ppm and so that was a nice spot for me. It is really important that you not get below 2 ppm, so find the upper end that works for you.
And, thanks for the compliment. I appreciate it! I find that posting here helps me to be clearer about what I do on my own pool.
Also, allow about 30 minutes between additions of chlorine and MA -- the product of mixing is "mustard gas" if I recall correctly.
I have a quart size plastic measuring cup that is dedicated to pool use. Don't have glass around the pool, a basic pool rule. Along with the rule that says don't store bleach and MA where should both leak at the same time they might mix.
Keep good records of what you test, what you add, and what the goal is. Over time you will learn how fast pH typically changes and how much acid you typically use.
As TA drifts downward, you need to re-calculate the MA needed since if TA is 30% lower then you need 30% less MA for the same pH change, you don't want to keep adding X cups only to find that this volume eventually drops pH way too low for safety.
Also from your records you will learn that your pool typically needs Y cups of bleach every day or Z cups every other day so if it suddenly needs more for awhile then you need to do a full test and maybe brush the pool more of clean the filter or something. Chlorine usage is akin to MPG on your car, it can be diagnostic. You hope to get to a sweet spot where you can predict that you need just so much bleach on a regular schedule. You will still test and monitor but it is nice to sometimes know that it is OK to just put 3 Qts in the pool and test next time.
And, you must be burning though the reagents at this rate. I know I did at first. You will get comfortable with the procedures soon and won't need to do that. Do re-order reagents in time though, no need to run all over town when they can be delivered to your door cheaper. Realize that the margin of error is going to be one drop, so don't stress over small differences. Your records will tell you if that small difference is valid.
Yes, with CYA at 30 your FC range is 2 to 4 ppm. That is only a 2 ppm difference and it may be that your pool drops by that every day, so you may prefer to follow the Pool Calculator and use the 2 -6ppm range. In my pool, 1 big jug was exactly 4 ppm and so that was a nice spot for me. It is really important that you not get below 2 ppm, so find the upper end that works for you.
And, thanks for the compliment. I appreciate it! I find that posting here helps me to be clearer about what I do on my own pool.
So that's how you make mustard gas! 
Just kidding, ofc. That's actually really really scary. I'll actually be putting that in my sig.
I'll be sure to space out chems. when adding several in a day. Luckily, my FC is fine for now so I can skip it today.
As always, great advice!
Just kidding, ofc. That's actually really really scary. I'll actually be putting that in my sig.
I'll be sure to space out chems. when adding several in a day. Luckily, my FC is fine for now so I can skip it today.
As always, great advice!
anonapersona said:
The true test of any knowledge is one's ability to explain it to someone else and have them understand.
Whew! Hectic day.
I got the top plates put on and they turned out great! I have painted all of them and it has turned out to be well worth the effort. I'll post pictures in the morning. I'm giddy as a chocolate-dosed school girl at a sleepover. My pool is turning out better than I expected.
FC was at 4 when I tested at 4:00pm and 3 at 7:00pm, so I'm getting about 8.5 FC loss in a full day of sun. I'll nurse it along over the holiday weekend, and probably add stabilizer Tuesday after testing. I don't want to add that much bleach daily. I'd like to get my CYA to where I can add about a jug/day. I added 84oz of 6% around 9:00pm to get back to 6 for tomorrow. I'll test in a bit after I get the kids to bed. I want to test my overnight FC again.
I'm definitely burning through reagents, but I'm getting familiar with the tests pretty quickly too. Hands-on experience is the best teacher, IMO. Awesome advice and being able to follow instructions are minimizing factors to the amount of hands-on experience required to learn a lesson. That thought kind of made my head hurt.
I added 28oz of 31.45% MA around 4:15 in hopes of lowering pH from 8.0 to 7.5. pH tested at 7.5 around 7:00pm. I'll keep an eye on pH as I plan on having lots of splash out over the weekend. I want to get a feel for how my TA effects it at current levels too. Looks like figuring out what splash out, and other forms of aeration do to pH are a personal thing for each pool. More generally, that the 'best' balance is unique for each pool and the circumstances that surround it. Anywho, I think I'd like to get my pH to where I only need to mess with it once or twice a week.
I set the liner Sunday and am ready to swim the following Saturday. I'm not sure how that compares with others' start up experiences, but I'm most definitely pleased with the outcome. The advice and knowledge contained in this forum, and conveyed through positive, helpful people is a great resource for anyone with a pool.
I can't thank you enough. All of your advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for helping me build a trouble-free pool! /insert marketing jingle background music to a family laughing and playing in their idyllic backyard oasis.
12:45am readings
FC 7.5
CC 0
pH 7.8
I did my first vacuuming earlier and got air in the line so my return was a spa jet for a while. Other than that, I've removed aeration by turning my return eye down at a 45 toward the bottom. I reseated the pump's filter top so I only have a little air bubble trapped in the top. I have a lot of pressure in my return. I'm starting to think that my pump is a little too big for my pool. My neighbor had the idea of opening up the eye hole a little with a file. That should give me more flow, but not as much pressure. My pool, currently, has a fairly strong current.
Happy 4th of July weekend everyone!! 
I got the top plates put on and they turned out great! I have painted all of them and it has turned out to be well worth the effort. I'll post pictures in the morning. I'm giddy as a chocolate-dosed school girl at a sleepover. My pool is turning out better than I expected.
FC was at 4 when I tested at 4:00pm and 3 at 7:00pm, so I'm getting about 8.5 FC loss in a full day of sun. I'll nurse it along over the holiday weekend, and probably add stabilizer Tuesday after testing. I don't want to add that much bleach daily. I'd like to get my CYA to where I can add about a jug/day. I added 84oz of 6% around 9:00pm to get back to 6 for tomorrow. I'll test in a bit after I get the kids to bed. I want to test my overnight FC again.
I'm definitely burning through reagents, but I'm getting familiar with the tests pretty quickly too. Hands-on experience is the best teacher, IMO. Awesome advice and being able to follow instructions
are minimizing factors to the amount of hands-on experience required to learn a lesson. That thought kind of made my head hurt.I added 28oz of 31.45% MA around 4:15 in hopes of lowering pH from 8.0 to 7.5. pH tested at 7.5 around 7:00pm. I'll keep an eye on pH as I plan on having lots of splash out over the weekend. I want to get a feel for how my TA effects it at current levels too. Looks like figuring out what splash out, and other forms of aeration do to pH are a personal thing for each pool. More generally, that the 'best' balance is unique for each pool and the circumstances that surround it. Anywho, I think I'd like to get my pH to where I only need to mess with it once or twice a week.
I set the liner Sunday and am ready to swim the following Saturday. I'm not sure how that compares with others' start up experiences, but I'm most definitely pleased with the outcome. The advice and knowledge contained in this forum, and conveyed through positive, helpful people is a great resource for anyone with a pool.
I can't thank you enough. All of your advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for helping me build a trouble-free pool! /insert marketing jingle background music to a family laughing and playing in their idyllic backyard oasis.
12:45am readings
FC 7.5
CC 0
pH 7.8
I did my first vacuuming earlier and got air in the line so my return was a spa jet for a while. Other than that, I've removed aeration by turning my return eye down at a 45 toward the bottom. I reseated the pump's filter top so I only have a little air bubble trapped in the top. I have a lot of pressure in my return. I'm starting to think that my pump is a little too big for my pool. My neighbor had the idea of opening up the eye hole a little with a file. That should give me more flow, but not as much pressure. My pool, currently, has a fairly strong current.
Happy 4th of July weekend everyone!!
Re: 1st time PO = trouble free pool, you can too!!
This forum has taught me how to maintain a pool... In a week!! Thinking of the number of people this forum has helped is amazing. Thank you all for the advice and guidance along the way. I'm not going anywhere, just expressing my gratitude. You guys inspire confidence. I've had nothing but compliments on the pool all day.
Our first pool party has gone really well. Everyone had a great time.
As promised:
See if you can count all the other little finishing projects I have to do in the background.
7:45am readings:
FC 7.0
CC 0
pH 7.8
6:30pm readings:
FC 3.5
CC 0
pH 7.8
I added 84oz of 6% around 9:00pm to bring FC back up for tomorrow's sun. I'd like to bump my stabilizer, but I'll be patient and see what it tests at Tuesday. I'll probably do another round of MA down to pH 7.4 tomorrow before heading out to the parents' house. Splash out caused about 1/2" of water loss. It's still in the middle of the skimmer though as I had it full. I'll see if I can get TA down a bit more before adding water. I'll do a full battery of tests tomorrow evening. Constant monitoring while I figure out this pool, then stock up on reagents for daily and weekly tests. I'll probably get it figured out just in time to close it.
I hope everyone finds some fun this weekend. Have a wonderful 4th weekend! Happy Birthday, America! 234yrs old tomorrow!
First round's on me!
This forum has taught me how to maintain a pool... In a week!! Thinking of the number of people this forum has helped is amazing. Thank you all for the advice and guidance along the way. I'm not going anywhere, just expressing my gratitude. You guys inspire confidence. I've had nothing but compliments on the pool all day.
Our first pool party has gone really well. Everyone had a great time.
As promised:
See if you can count all the other little finishing projects I have to do in the background.
7:45am readings:
FC 7.0
CC 0
pH 7.8
6:30pm readings:
FC 3.5
CC 0
pH 7.8
I added 84oz of 6% around 9:00pm to bring FC back up for tomorrow's sun. I'd like to bump my stabilizer, but I'll be patient and see what it tests at Tuesday. I'll probably do another round of MA down to pH 7.4 tomorrow before heading out to the parents' house. Splash out caused about 1/2" of water loss. It's still in the middle of the skimmer though as I had it full. I'll see if I can get TA down a bit more before adding water. I'll do a full battery of tests tomorrow evening. Constant monitoring while I figure out this pool, then stock up on reagents for daily and weekly tests. I'll probably get it figured out just in time to close it.
I hope everyone finds some fun this weekend. Have a wonderful 4th weekend! Happy Birthday, America! 234yrs old tomorrow!
First round's on me!
I was at 9.5 after adding chlorine Sunday evening. I boosted FC up to 8.5 & 10 the last couple of nights with morning readings <1ppm difference. I was at 2.5 this evening.
Sunday
FC 9.5 @ 9:00p
CC <=0.5
pH ~7.8
Monday
added 28oz of MA @ 11a
FC 2 @ 6p
CC 0
added 96oz of 6%
FC 8.5 @ 9p
CC 0
pH ~7.4
Tuesday
FC 8 @ 7:30a
CC 0
FC 2 @ 8:30p
CC <=0.5
added 96oz of 6%
FC 10 @ 9:30p
CC 0
pH ~7.5
I tested for CYA, but filled the bottle and could still see the dot.
I added about 1.5" of tap water to the pool.
Wednesday
CYA ~22
FC 9.5 @ 8a
CC 0
FC 2.5 @ 6p
CC 0
pH ~7.9
I added 48oz of MA in hopes of bringing it down to ~7.4 @ 7p
pH ~7.3 @ 11:30p
adding 96oz of 6% @ 11:30p
I'm going to add 41oz of stabilizer to get CYA to ~45. Should I take smaller steps? I'll wait and test CYA tomorrow, but I want to add more to protect the chlorine a bit more during the day. I'm currently fluctuating FC between 2-10/day and that range is dipping down to my minimum. That's a little worrisome. I wouldn't mind adding more bleach daily to offset the higher CYA if it will maintain FC levels better. There has to be some way to even out the spikes and valleys in chlorine PPM throughout the day. Do other people bounce around minimum daily? I'll have to read more about CYA, SWGs and automatic chlorine feeders.
If this should be a new thread, move it at will.
Sunday
FC 9.5 @ 9:00p
CC <=0.5
pH ~7.8
Monday
added 28oz of MA @ 11a
FC 2 @ 6p
CC 0
added 96oz of 6%
FC 8.5 @ 9p
CC 0
pH ~7.4
Tuesday
FC 8 @ 7:30a
CC 0
FC 2 @ 8:30p
CC <=0.5
added 96oz of 6%
FC 10 @ 9:30p
CC 0
pH ~7.5
I tested for CYA, but filled the bottle and could still see the dot.
I added about 1.5" of tap water to the pool.
Wednesday
CYA ~22
FC 9.5 @ 8a
CC 0
FC 2.5 @ 6p
CC 0
pH ~7.9
I added 48oz of MA in hopes of bringing it down to ~7.4 @ 7p
pH ~7.3 @ 11:30p
adding 96oz of 6% @ 11:30p
I'm going to add 41oz of stabilizer to get CYA to ~45. Should I take smaller steps? I'll wait and test CYA tomorrow, but I want to add more to protect the chlorine a bit more during the day. I'm currently fluctuating FC between 2-10/day and that range is dipping down to my minimum. That's a little worrisome. I wouldn't mind adding more bleach daily to offset the higher CYA if it will maintain FC levels better. There has to be some way to even out the spikes and valleys in chlorine PPM throughout the day. Do other people bounce around minimum daily? I'll have to read more about CYA, SWGs and automatic chlorine feeders.
If this should be a new thread, move it at will.
OK, to review, you have calculated and added on 6/16 enough stabilizer to get to CYA 40 but now, some 3 weeks later you only see about 22?
First, please check the label of the stabilizer to see what % CYA it claims. Pool Calculator assumes 100% CYA, if your brand is 50%ish then that would explain this result.
First, please check the label of the stabilizer to see what % CYA it claims. Pool Calculator assumes 100% CYA, if your brand is 50%ish then that would explain this result.
257WbyMag said:
The directions on the bottle recommended an initial CYA of 40, but I was just going to 30 per 257wbymag's suggestion. The difference might be user error. I'm not sure. I put in 54oz (27oz twice). I didn't test CYA last night. I'll test again and see if it's just slow to show.Quinsee said:
I'll look on the bottle when I get home to see what % CYA the BioGuard contains. I tried finding a bottle label online, but all I get is generic descriptions of the product.
Thank you, MITS.
I tested CYA Friday and got a reading of 30. So it was just slow to show. Any ideas on what would take it so long to show or is a week and a half within range?
I've been testing and balancing as needed. It really becomes second nature after a while. I'll post my weekly test results this evening (if I find time). They're written down at home.
I tested CYA Friday and got a reading of 30. So it was just slow to show. Any ideas on what would take it so long to show or is a week and a half within range?
I've been testing and balancing as needed. It really becomes second nature after a while. I'll post my weekly test results this evening (if I find time). They're written down at home.