2-year old IC60 not keeping Chlorine level up

Call a professional to advise you and then you can hold them responsible for the results.

If you ask for free opinions on the internet, then you get whatever you get.

You make the final decision and you need to take responsibility for whatever happens because you are the person doing the work.

The person who goes hands on with the equipment has to take responsibility for whatever happens.
The "Professionals" at Pinch-a-Penny who replaced all the pool equipment when I bought this home, screwed up my water testing a long time ago - inconsistent. At least I'm getting consistent results now with my own testing.

I will be doing an OCLT and will take it from there based on the results.
 
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My CYA is routinely 70-80ppm. I once (a long, long time ago) had it up to 90ppm and had to SLAM my pool. That required an FC of 36ppm. The SLAM lasted 3 days. My equipment and pool were fine.

The Taylor FAS-DPD test can measure FC all the way up to 50ppm reliable if one is using 2 scoops of the R-0870 DPD powder reagent. It is designed to handle high FC levels. I have measured FC levels as high as 40ppm with it. It is a very accurate and repeatable test. The color matching DPD test that uses the R-0001/R-0002 reagents can easily measure up to 10ppm FC but will bleach out above 20ppm FC. You don't titrate with that test, you just color match (like what one does with the yellow OTO test, except way more accurate than OTO).

The active chlorine compound that causes "damage" to anything is hypochlorous acid. When CYA is present in water, it holds most of the chlorine atoms in reserve by bonding the chlorine atom to the CYA molecule. So there is only a small fraction of the chlorine that exists as hypochlorouos acid at any given time. In any chlorine test, free chlorine (FC) is the sum of all active and RESERVE chlorine - so it's the sum total of hypochlorous acid, hypochlorite anion, and chlorine held in reserve by CYA. So when you see an FC at 28ppm and you have a CYA of 80ppm, there is only about 0.38ppm of that in the form of hypochlorous acid. That's not enough oxidizer to damage anything but it is certainly enough of a disinfectant to kill ANYTHING in the water that is living (except humans and pets). That is the hole point of CYA - if it weren't in the water, it would be nearly impossible to maintain such low levels of FC to create bather comfort and disinfection. You'd either always have too much or too little active chlorine.
 
I don't understand the statement "When the chlorine level is raised to ten times the amount of COMBINED CHLORINE..." My understanding is that Combined Chlorine is the difference between Total Chlorine and Free Chlorine. In my case, that is .1. Ten times that is only 1.0. So, this statement makes no sense to me.
 
My CYA is routinely 70-80ppm. I once (a long, long time ago) had it up to 90ppm and had to SLAM my pool. That required an FC of 36ppm. The SLAM lasted 3 days. My equipment and pool were fine.

The Taylor FAS-DPD test can measure FC all the way up to 50ppm reliable if one is using 2 scoops of the R-0870 DPD powder reagent. It is designed to handle high FC levels. I have measured FC levels as high as 40ppm with it. It is a very accurate and repeatable test. The color matching DPD test that uses the R-0001/R-0002 reagents can easily measure up to 10ppm FC but will bleach out above 20ppm FC. You don't titrate with that test, you just color match (like what one does with the yellow OTO test, except way more accurate than OTO).

The active chlorine compound that causes "damage" to anything is hypochlorous acid. When CYA is present in water, it holds most of the chlorine atoms in reserve by bonding the chlorine atom to the CYA molecule. So there is only a small fraction of the chlorine that exists as hypochlorouos acid at any given time. In any chlorine test, free chlorine (FC) is the sum of all active and RESERVE chlorine - so it's the sum total of hypochlorous acid, hypochlorite anion, and chlorine held in reserve by CYA. So when you see an FC at 28ppm and you have a CYA of 80ppm, there is only about 0.38ppm of that in the form of hypochlorous acid. That's not enough oxidizer to damage anything but it is certainly enough of a disinfectant to kill ANYTHING in the water that is living (except humans and pets). That is the hole point of CYA - if it weren't in the water, it would be nearly impossible to maintain such low levels of FC to create bather comfort and disinfection. You'd either always have too much or too little active chlorine.
First two paragraphs - good information. Third paragraph makes some sense, but missing the calculations for hypochlorous acid. I have ordered the Taylor K-1515-A test kit. It has that powder, but it also has R-0871 Titrating Agent and R-0003 Reagent. As I don't have the kit yet and don't have instructions, are you saying I should NOT use the R-0871 Titrating Agent for levels above 20ppm?
 
I don't understand the statement "When the chlorine level is raised to ten times the amount of COMBINED CHLORINE..." My understanding is that Combined Chlorine is the difference between Total Chlorine and Free Chlorine. In my case, that is .1. Ten times that is only 1.0. So, this statement makes no sense to me.
The statement is from Pentair; ask them to explain it.
 
How are you getting 0.1 ppm for the CC?

Can you describe your testing process?
I use a DPD 1 reagent to get FC. I then retest the same sample with a DPD 3 reagent. In my case it gave me a .1 ppm level higher than FC.
I am using the PoolLab 1.0 colorimetric tool.
 
First two paragraphs - good information. Third paragraph makes some sense, but missing the calculations for hypochlorous acid. I have ordered the Taylor K-1515-A test kit. It has that powder, but it also has R-0871 Titrating Agent and R-0003 Reagent. As I don't have the kit yet and don't have instructions, are you saying I should NOT use the R-0871 Titrating Agent for levels above 20ppm?
R-0870 is the dpd powder. Yes - you use all 3 (r-0870, r-0871, & r-0003) - to test fc & cc’s up to 50ppm. There should be instructions in the kit but here’s some too


The color matching Taylor DPD test that uses the R-0001/R-0002 reagents can easily measure up to 10ppm FC but will bleach out above 20ppm FC.

It’s easy to be confused with all the numbers!
 
Here are the results from my OCLT:

Evening
Chlorine generator turned off
Circ pump run 35 minutes before sample taken
8:05PM FC:6.6

Morning
Chlorine generator still off
Circ pump run 40 minutes before sample taken
6:35AM FC:6.1

Overnight Chlorine loss 0.5ppm

OK. Now what?
 

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Here are the results from my OCLT:

Evening
Chlorine generator turned off
Circ pump run 35 minutes before sample taken
8:05PM FC:6.6

Morning
Chlorine generator still off
Circ pump run 40 minutes before sample taken
6:35AM FC:6.1

Overnight Chlorine loss 0.5ppm

OK. Now what?
That’s great 👍🏻 you have ruled out organics consuming your fc.
Now you can do an overnight chlorine gain test - with the swg running @100% all night & see what it makes. Then compare that to the PoolMath effects of additional estimate.
It’s the same rules as the oclt - both tests in the dark to take uv out of the equation.
No extra chlorine added during the test period.
 
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That’s great 👍🏻 you have ruled out organics consuming your fc.
Now you can do an overnight chlorine gain test - with the swg running @100% all night & see what it makes. Then compare that to the PoolMath effects of additional estimate.
It’s the same rules as the oclt - both tests in the dark to take uv out of the equation.
No extra chlorine added during the test period.
OK.
How do I calculate how much Chlorine "should" be added by my SWG running at 100%? I think I have read somewhere the IC60 produces 2 lbs. of Chlorine in 24 hours.
If I plug in:
Chemical Additions: SWG
24 Hour SWG Output: 2 (lbs.)
What would you like to calculate: Free Chlorine Generated
SWG %: 100%
Pump Run Time: 10 hours (or whatever the actual runtime is)

I get a FC rise of 4.3, for my size pool.

Is this how I should answer these questions?
 
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Good luck 🍀
Hopefully your cell is fine & you were just behind on increasing %/runtime for the summer.
See u in the am 👍🏻
Oops!
0.5 inches of rain btw: 5:00 & 6:00 PM
Circ pump run from 7:00 to 8:20PM, Chlorine generator off
Sample taken at 8:20PM, Chlorine generator set to 100%
FC: 6.0

Morning
Sample taken at 6:20 AM
FC: Overrange!
Here's the "Oops". My colorimeter max range is 8. I was expecting a 4.3 rise which would take the FC to 10.3

I am expecting the Taylor kit to arrive today. I will re-run this test Monday.
 
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Honestly speaking, I know you’ve been relying on your ColorQ, or whichever digital tester you have, and I can tell you that they can easily be wrong especially as they age. They often work well out of the box but usually don’t make it a year before we start seeing serious issues with them. I can’t tell you how many posts we get every season with folks that use the ColorQ who think their pool water chemistry is fine and then, after testing with a Taylor kit, they realize how far off they were. ColorQ’s and their variants usually do ok on pH and even FC (if it’s within range and on the low side) but they often fail miserably with TA and they routinely underestimate CH.

I suggest you retest everything with the Taylor kit when you get it and redo the overnight loss and gain tests.
 
I don't understand the statement "When the chlorine level is raised to ten times the amount of COMBINED CHLORINE..." My understanding is that Combined Chlorine is the difference between Total Chlorine and Free Chlorine. In my case, that is .1. Ten times that is only 1.0. So, this statement makes no sense to me.
This is the problem (surprising no one caught it so far).

Your earlier test results listing FC and CC are typos or incorrect. I suspect you were measuring total chlorine instead of combined chlorine. It’s then extrapolating the CC level. The issue with that digital tester is that it doesn’t provide the reliability the Taylor kit does.

If the FC is 8ppm and CC is 0.2ppm, then the TC (total chlorine) is just a math equation… 8.0+0.2= 8.2ppm.

The “10 times” reference is for free chlorine. So in my example above, the FC would be raised to 2ppm to be 10X the CC level. (It’s already at that level in my example) But that 10x reference thing is a goofy thing that isn’t something worth worrying about for that very reason.
 
It's promising that you picked up 2 FC and likely more than that. (y)
Sorry for the delay in updating. I had to let the Chlorine level drop to a point where a ~4ppm increase wouldn't cause my colorimiter to be overrange.
I ran my test last night. I started with a Chlorine level of 3.9 and ended 9 hours later with a level of 7.4. The difference is 3.5. The Poolmath calculator suggested a difference of 3.7. I call that good.

I will start using the Taylor kit now that I have this test out of the way. I wanted to use the same methodology as the colorimiter had at least been consistent in the resultant values.
 

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