1st year closing with SWG

[P00LNerd]

Did a conversion to TFP method and SWG this year, and wondering two things:

1. Has anyone posted a closing procedure, with regard to TFP methods and SWG? I'm assuming that loading up with 90-day algea blocker and stain and scale remover, as my pool company recommended in years past, is not the TFP method.

2. How early can I close, and not worry about opening to a green swamp in spring? In the past, I waited until water temp was reliable staying below 65F, to avoid any issues with algae. But this meant dealing with a massive leaf load in the skimmer in the final weeks, as we are surrounded by Walnut trees that drop their leaves notoriously early. Water is presently at 79F, and leaf load is just starting to really ramp up.

Air temperatures are forecast to be 54 to 76F next week, above our normal for this time of year, but too cool for swimming.

 

[HermanTX]

I think @Newdude can give you first hand experience with this.

 

[Newdude]

Has anyone posted a closing procedure, with regard to TFP methods and SWG?

Finish the season in normal range. Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to ensure youre putting it away algae free. Then you have 2 choices :

1) raise FC to half slam and add polyquat 60
2) raise FC to full slam

We're fairly split down the middle when it comes to polyquat60, and i don't believe anyone is wrong. I'm on team skip it FWIW.

How early can I close, and not worry about opening to a green swamp in spring?

You need cool water for better chances of a clear opening. Many of us 'soft close' and cover the pool but leave it running under the cover. That will keep the crud out while allowing you more time before closing.

Here's my closing procedure if any of it helps.

Closing with shop vac.

Today was the day for closing and it went great with a 6HP shop vac. I hooked my blower up for fun after, and there really wasn't much left but some spray. Anywho I wanted to do a write up for all the folks wondering if they could save a chunk of change and tackle their own closing...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[sande005]

Some brands of SWCG say that their cells are all-weather proof. Some advice here has been that if the cell is blown out along with the rest of the plumbing, there is nothing else to do. I am cautious and remove the cell and take it inside for the winter (I have a dummy section of pipe I can replace it with - others just plug the pipe ends to prevent furry creatures from getting in). My control box is covered, but stays out all winter.

I've had algae growing in water as low as 45-50. Not fast, but it grows. One can't fully trust that it stops growing until the water itself freezes. While Cl loss is much less at low temps, and especially when the pool is covered, it still gets used up. So it is a bit of a balancing act between the weather and how long it takes the water to get very cold. Close too early, and get unseasonable warmish weather? Oops, algae.
Polyquat 60 is the recommended algicide to use, and the additional defense for the above issue - it doesn't kill, but will inhibit growth, and lasts a long time in the water. Read more about it here: Algaecide - Further Reading
Note that when using it, it is better to not get Cl up to high levels .

I advocate for closing as late as you can - even if you have to deal with leaves. And then open as early as possible. Here we have been known to get major snowfalls just past Halloween (rare, but...) so I close a week or two before. And the last snow is usually early April, so I uncover mid-month.

 

[P00LNerd]

Wow... busy weekend. Sorry for the slow reply.

I'm going to wait until water temp is below 65F to close.

I'm looking for some better solutions to deal with the massive leaf fall we see this time of year, as keeping up with the skimmer basket is becoming somewhat a full-time job, lest it get jammed up so bad it can't be removed without shutting off the pump. As to leaves blowing into the pool while I'm in the middle of trying to cover it for winter, that can be a bit of a thing, but I can just wait until all the leaves are off the walnut trees, as they're already half done.

I have a 90 day Algecide I had already purchased that's not Polyquat 60. Okay to use what I have this year? Seemed to work fine last year, but that was back when I was running a lot of additives that I don't use today.

 

[Mdragger88]

Do you use a solid cover?
I do & i forego the polyquat & just close at slam level.
I also “soft close” ie. Put on the cover but leave the pool running because the sky is falling lol
I will probably do that next weekend.
I won’t actually winterize until about Halloween probably.
Until then I’ll run a couple hours a day and with my swcg my fc will climb over the next month so I won’t need as much liquid chlorine to reach slam level.
At that time I’ll pop the cover open a little- add the lc i need , throw the bot in for one last joy ride then plug things up. I do the reverse in the spring because of seed pods . When the water temp starts warming up I get the plumbing connected and raise the water level if necessary then start running while it’s covered for about a month. I always have target fc or higher upon startup in the spring. I can just peel back the cover a little to put the bot in or add salt etc.
I do keep my cover pumped off with an automatic pump.

 

[P00LNerd]

Yes, I have a solid cover, and I like the sound of your procedure. I was envisioning trying to get the Dang cover off at Halloween, when it's full of leaves and water, and thinking that sounded pretty miserable. But if you never actually take the cover off, that's even better.

We usually freeze hard here, so I lower the water level below skimmer and all fittings (lights), lest they be sheared off if frozen-in. But that's pretty easy with a vacuum attachment hose plugged into the skimmer suction pipe.

Is your vacuum corded or cordless? Not sure how my vacuum would fare trying to run it below a cover. Other than that, your process sounds perfect for my conditions.

 

[Mdragger88]

Yeah the cover stays on.
I also have a leaf net that goes on top - 10/10 recommend makes spring cover clean up easy. If we get alot of fall leaves that don’t blow off I might dump the leaf cover before the freezing weather comes.
It takes me 5 minutes by myself. It just lays there on top- it doesn’t blow around because it’s holey. I secure it with some binder clips but really some rocks would do.
I have a corded dolphin- its cord is plugged in next to the area I peel the cover back - thats its normal entry point.
it has no problem making its way around under there although I do monitor while it runs since it climbs the wall but its never eaten the cover.
I have a round above ground pool & the cover is secured with a cable & winch so i just loosen the cable a tad and pull the cover over the edge. Without water on top it just floats. I don’t leave it that way, while the bot runs i re secure it incase the wind blows or something. If you use water bags you would just put them back. The area I peel back is where the skimmer & returns are and that’s where I put the winch for the cable so everything is conveniently together.

 

[Mdragger88]

I prefer the soft close/soft open method for a few reasons:
1- my location, its too cold to swim but stays too warm here for too long - we really don’t have a fall, its hot today & cold tomorrow then hot again then suddenly freezing.
2- debris from Mother Nature, October & april are the worst months for it here which makes for alot of work on the pool when you can’t really play in the pool.
3- I like breaking the work of closing/opening up into small bites since I do everything myself. It also makes it less stressful instead of a full weekend where its all gotta happen right now.
30 minutes to drag the cover out & put it on and throw the cover pump on there.
Then a few weeks down the road get the levels all sorted (really only fc for me) then the next day or week deal with the actual winterizing.
Same in the spring - i have time to get my plumbing improvements or whatever squared away because I start early.

I know some people choose to set it & forget it & act like its a mysterious sealed up vault or something but it’s really no big deal to check things & do things while its closed.
I check my fc before the freeze comes and after its over and the pool is thawed because we get some weird heat waves- usually around Christmas and February so there’s no surprises. I know I have enough fc to get me through & I know the water level. It takes 5 minutes. I have never needed to add any chlorine but if I did I’d just drop the cover pump in there & do so.
That 10 minutes of attention saves me from a week or more of slamming a swamp.

 

[P00LNerd]

Finish the season in normal range. Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to ensure youre putting it away algae free. Then you have 2 choices :

1) raise FC to half slam and add polyquat 60
2) raise FC to full slam

I've never had to SLAM my pool, I just keep chlorine in the recommended range from Pool Math. You can see my logs, if interested.

So, what's "half SLAM" really mean, if adding polyquat 60? If my recommended range is 3.0 - 9.0, and the SLAM toggle in Pool Math suggests 22, should I go to 11ppm or half way between normal (6.0) and 22? The latter would be 14 ppm.

Probably doesn't matter, I'd guess. But since it's pretty easy to hit 11 or 14, to within 0.5 ppm, which is my target?

Pool is running mid-60's, so I'm probably ready to close any day now. I'm having to empty the skimmer basket every 4 hours, since I never had a chance to soft-close, and it's still uncovered. Falling leaves are really ramping up, here.

 

[Mdragger88]

1/2 way between target & slam

 

[Newdude]

So, what's "half SLAM" really mean, if adding polyquat 60? If my recommended range is 3.0 - 9.0, and the SLAM toggle in Pool Math suggests 22, should I go to 11ppm or half way between normal (6.0) and 22? The latter would be 14 ppm.

Slam is 40% of your CYA. 24 FC for a 60 CYA with no PQ, or 12 FC with PQ.

I've never had to SLAM my pool, I just keep chlorine in the recommended range from Pool Math.

Awesomesauce. OCLT anyway to prove the water is algae free before walking away from it for months. An ounce of prevention and whatnot.

 

[P00LNerd]

OCLT anyway...

Okay... time to help the old guy with a new acronym. OCLT?

 

[Newdude]

Link:
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

 

[P00LNerd]

Thanks! I have a bottle of polyquat 60 arriving Monday, and water has been hovering in mid-60's the last few days, with overnight lows in the upper 30's here this week. So, we should be ready to close one day next week.

Good thing, leaf load is getting troublesome. I'm emptying completely-packed skimmers every 4-8 hours. Just keeping leaves out of the pool long enough to get the cover on is going to be an issue.

 

[Newdude]

Next year condsider a soft close before the leaves get too crazy. Cover the pool to stop the falling debris and run the pump under the cover as long as you need until cool water. If the returns push the cover, aim them down a little for less surface movement.

 

[dereksanders]

Okay... time to help the old guy with a new acronym. OCLT?

It’s not to be confused with the occult.

 

[P00LNerd]

Wind is zero this morning, so I quick threw the vacuum into the pool. If wind is still zero when that's done, I'm going to move forward with covering the thing today. Despite the pool being semi-in-ground, the cover is the bead lock type that sits on the surface of the water, like an above ground pool. So, not a great one for running a corded robot vac with the cover on.

If I can get the cover on now to keep the leaves off, I can do the closing next week or whenever. It's pretty easy to pull a small section of cover out of the bead lock to insert a suction hose to the skimmer and remove the LED lights. Our biggest challenge, this time of year, is finding a low-wind day to do the cover without leaves blowing in while we work.

 

[dereksanders]

Where at in PA? I used to live in and around Pittsburgh, then out in Indiana County.

 

[P00LNerd]

Where at in PA? I used to live in and around Pittsburgh, then out in Indiana County.

Southeast PA. Just 30 miles north of Philly, in the rural burbs.

And cover is on! Will do OCLT tonight.