Converting swamp to pool (pics included)

[Davegvg]

Compared to a Sand filter on a cleanup job DE rig especially an older one like you have - is a pain-
Just go buy a few 25lb bags of it and expect to keep cycling it.

The upside is when you are done you'll have clearer water, and at night you wont have "streams" of light shining through.

You are getting good advice - get as many leaves out as you possibly can, as they will reduce the effectiveness of the chlorine substantially.

I'd bet you had between 40 and 50 garbage cans full of debris down there.


Keep fighting! Its coming around, and thank you for documenting and sharing with us, I for one appreciate your efforts.


Uncle Dave

 

[goyom]

OK call me crazy but I have a question as I have a friend with a similar pool in a similar shape.

Would it not save a huge amount of time to use a good sump pump and pump most of that fetid water out? Maybe 2/3 of the water at least?

Why would you use a sump pump instead of just draining the pool?

My neighbors pool is is so nasty its actually black, he does not want to run it through the pump its actually capped off, he was told it was left that way after the pool was closed 2 years ago.

So the plan was pump out as much as we can, scoop out the goop, and then reconnect pump and fill with clean water and a bunch of bleach.

 

[geekgranny]

With loads of gunk and leaves in the pool, if you have a bottom drain a lot of stuff is going to be pulled down the drain into the pump pot basket either causing the basket to fill up quickly or even cause a blockage in the main drain pipe. Once you get the water level up to the skimmer my suggestion is to close off the main drain and do all the filtering through the skimmer to avoid the above situation. If you can't close off the main drain I designed a device that will keep anything but water entering the main drain. See next paragraph.

In the past, when I've let the pool go over the winter with resulting swamp filled with a forest of leaves I fashioned a guard for the main drain to keep the stuff from entering the main drain if I wanted to use it to clear the water faster but avoid problems with drain becoming blocked or pump basket filling too fast. Simple instructions for drain gunk guard if anyone wants them. Uses common things around the house.

What I've done in the past also. (I can't remember if you have vinyl or plaster but may not be advised for vinyl) Blind scoop as much as possible all the gunk out doing it slowly and sectioning off several areas to work on individually. Then throw a bunch of granular chlorine in pool. Run filter with skimmer only. Mine usually cleared overnight so that I could see the remainder of stuff on bottom. Slowly scoop up more gunk disturbing bottom as little as possible. This may not get it all so let it sit, with skimmer circulation only until it clears some more. At this point you may have to do a scooping again or be at the point where you can start slowly, very slowly, manual vacuuming. This will fill the pump basket up very quickly requiring you to stop the pump, close valves, and clean out pump basket. In my case it was every 5 minutes. Solution is an in-line leaf catcher on the suction hose. I think this is the only solution. Disturb the bottom as little as possible to keep the water clear enough to see the bottom. When water gets too disturbed to do any more vacuuming stop vacuuming and let stuff settle to bottom again and repeat.

I've successfully cleared a black swamp (more than once in 23 years) over a long weekend (three days and nights) doing it this way.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Its vinyl - don't use granular.

 

[Davegvg]

Good advice GG.

I wouldn't think of vacuuming to the filter basket without an in line leaf canister - preferably one with a mesh bag

Once you get down to the last bits and pieces...
Renting a device from a local shop like a hammerhead cleaner would help out a lot as well.
Put some ping pong balls in the bag and this will get a lot of the small debris out quickly. It will disturb the water though.

When you are at this stage after a really effective shock in the morning the dead algae will look a lot like dirt on the bottom and you can get it up with a vacuum or a bottom cleaner.

You have a lot of filter flushings and de charges to go boss.........

I find the granular shock is the best, but as "mom" says.. not great for a liner pool.


UD

 

[geekgranny]

Good advice GG. Once you get down to the last bits and pieces...
Renting a device from a local shop like a hammerhead cleaner would help out a lot as well.
Put some ping pong balls in the bag and this will get a lot of the small debris out quickly. It will disturb the water though.

What is a "hammerhead cleaner"?

gg=alice

 

[Davegvg]

Its a powerfull high volume/high throughput industrial vac thats independent of the filter.

http://hammerheadvac.com/

I lived in a condo once, the complex had multiple pools all surrounded with vegetation and the leaf and debris situation got out of control quickly- the association hired a crackshot group of guys that brought these things in and I got to watch them firsthand.

Very effective.

Uncle Dave

 

[ntshclr]

Got my first test results done. I'm pretty sure I messed up the CC, but the rest I'm confident with:

CC:0.5
FC: 0
pH: 6.5
TA: 50
CH: 40
CYA: <20

I think the CYA is really close to 0. I couldn't tell any difference to the water when I added the reagent and the black dot on the bottom of the cylinder was still perfectly clear when the cylinder was filled with water.

I'm going to raise the pH to the proper level before shocking, which will most likely be tomorrow since I think I'm going to be scooping leaves for the rest of the day. Is there anything else I need to change first?

I also followed geek's advice in turning off the main drain, right now only the two skimmers are on.

 

[JasonLion]

The most important thing is to raise the PH to somewhere between 7.0 and 7.5.

Your CYA is zero. You should raise CYA up to around 30 before starting to shock the pool.

Good Luck!

 

[ntshclr]

I just bought a bunch of Borax to raise the pH, liquid stabilizer for the CYA(very expensive, $36 each for 4 bottles!), and baking soda for the alkalinity which I'm assuming doesn't need to be touched until later. Can I do the pH and CYA at the same time or is it better to do one before the other?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Do the PH first.... adjusting the stabilizer anytime after a few minutes is fine. Be sure to test the PH one to two more times today and add more borax if necessary. Once the PH is in range you can begin shocking - the stabilizer should mix in fairly quickly since you are using the liquid.

 

[Melt In The Sun]

aaannnnnddd.....here we go! Keep posting those pictures! ::

 

[ny poolguy]

I figured out what that canister is for. It screws in on the left underneath the pressure gauge.

That canister filter was usually plumbed into a line designated for a pressure side pool cleaner. In the middle of one of the side walls of your pool there should be a return (likely at a different height then the rest) where the cleaner plugs in. The filter is to catch little pieces of debris that might clog the small water jets in the cleaner.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

An Off topic discussion of adjusting TA and PH has been moved to this thread.

 

[mynewpool]

I just bought a bunch of Borax to raise the pH, liquid stabilizer for the CYA(very expensive, $36 each for 4 bottles!), and baking soda for the alkalinity which I'm assuming doesn't need to be touched until later. Can I do the pH and CYA at the same time or is it better to do one before the other?

From what I have been told the only advantage of liquid stablizer vs granular is the reaction time. The reaction time for the liquid is a lot quicker than the granules. The granules are a lot cheaper though. The leslies in my area had the liquid stablizer on sale for 26.99, but regular 34.99. The granules were 21.99 for 4 lbs which was enough for me.

 

[ntshclr]

I just bought a bunch of Borax to raise the pH, liquid stabilizer for the CYA(very expensive, $36 each for 4 bottles!), and baking soda for the alkalinity which I'm assuming doesn't need to be touched until later. Can I do the pH and CYA at the same time or is it better to do one before the other?

From what I have been told the only advantage of liquid stablizer vs granular is the reaction time. The reaction time for the liquid is a lot quicker than the granules. The granules are a lot cheaper though. The leslies in my area had the liquid stablizer on sale for 26.99, but regular 34.99. The granules were 21.99 for 4 lbs which was enough for me.

Yup, I just didn't want to wait up to a week for the granules to dissolve. I think I would have saved $90 or so if I did, not worth the wait.

 

[ntshclr]

I figured out what that canister is for. It screws in on the left underneath the pressure gauge.

That canister filter was usually plumbed into a line designated for a pressure side pool cleaner. In the middle of one of the side walls of your pool there should be a return (likely at a different height then the rest) where the cleaner plugs in. The filter is to catch little pieces of debris that might clog the small water jets in the cleaner.

We do have a vacuum, so I think that's what it's for. Unfortunately, I think it's broken.



Time to shock now. I'm going to go out and check the pH and CYA and if everything is good the bleach is going in.

 

[ntshclr]

Hmm, a little problem. I did a backwash and when I added more DE to the skimmer I noticed it shooting out of one of the return jets shortly after. What does this mean?

 

[ntshclr]

From what I've read it means there's a tear in the filter grid. Ugh. Someone said you can patch it with a hot glue gun. I guess I'll go check for any tears.

 

[geekgranny]

Its a powerfull high volume/high throughput industrial vac thats independent of the filter.

http://hammerheadvac.com/

I lived in a condo once, the complex had multiple pools all surrounded with vegetation and the leaf and debris situation got out of control quickly- the association hired a crackshot group of guys that brought these things in and I got to watch them firsthand.

Very effective.

Uncle Dave

Thanks. So it seems it works similar to a Leaf Gulper, which uses a hose to create jets angled up into the bag.

I have found, over the years, that I prefer to use a big leaf scoop net when cleaning up a swamp and only use the Leaf Gulper when the water is clear for large debris on bottom with very little fine stuff. Manual scooping doesn't stir up the bottom as much, and all the small stuff is shot right through the bag, even using the fine bags. Besides that the bag fills so fast with the larger stuff. I can manually clear out the bottom of swamp much faster than fooling with emptying the Leaf Gulper every few minutes. Not saying that the Hammerhead isn't a very useful product but for a swamp I think it would make things worse.

Over the years I've had some major swamps, here at my pool. Several times I had to be out of country for weeks to months right when the leaves started falling, which goes on for a couple of months, and then it blows into pool all winter plus all the other blown in debris. No one here to do the major maintenance needed many times a day to keep swamp from happening. So one would say I have significant experience cleaning up swamps. I don't want to ever have to do it again.

DH, who isn't working as many hours/days now, keeps asking me why I spent so much time this winter maintaining the pool, which is usually kept open all year. Two reasons: 1) He wasn't here, before to see all the work it takes to keep the pool in good condition, in the fall/winter, here in the deep woods, and 2) I'm NOT going to have another swamp if I can help it.

If the occasion should arise again I'll sell some things and have safety cover installed and hire someone to come by weekly to check on things. At least now the new Intelliflo VF will cut off if anything gets clogged up.