Return question

[jatkinson]

Ah returns.... Primary purpose is to return filtered, heated or treated water back to the pool. I also understand they provide some surface movement to keep debris on the move back towards the skimmers. Has anyone any experience in using additional returns located much lower down the walls to provide movement of water along the bottom of a pool?
I'm contemplating an idea to not allow water to stagnate anywhere in a pool. The lowers could be shut off during vacuum cycles to give trash a chance to settle.
This method could also be cleverly employed on tanning shelfs and odd ball seats as we all know robots don't get everything.
thanks.

 

[Texas Splash]

I suppose benefits of the concept you are describing would depend on your pool size, shape, and output pressure of the returns (plumbing and eyeball sizes). If you are able to fabricate such returns yourself, you might see some benefits close to the return eyeballs, or perhaps a few feet away. Return jets will only push water so hard and x-distance away, so you have to be realistic about the expectations, but for those smaller/stagnant areas it might help.

Please update your signature with all of your pool and equipment info so we have a better idea of what you have to work with there.

 

[PoolGate]

My pool has 3 larger returns along the bottom. They are known as "deep heat returns" and due to heat rising, when heated water comes out of them, convection takes over and mixes the water. I leave them on 100% of the time. Whatever you choose, a desirable outcome is a slow turn in one direction to aid the skimmers.

 

[Dirk]

I'd choose lower returns over drains, for sure. But keep in mind that every return you add lessons the output of the others. You compensate by upping pump RPMs. There are diminishing returns at some point. (Literally and figuratively!) Too many returns and you'll be burning energy and not really getting that much oomph.

Also, keep in mind that circulation doesn't sanitize a pool, chlorine does. Circulation distributes the chlorine, but for the most part, once it's mixed in, it does its job. Additional circulation doesn't make it work any better or harder.

And consider, a robot or cleaner roaming around can be more effective than some number of returns, and much more cost effective. Not to mention they'll pick up gunk that no amount of returns can achieve.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Would this be of any help to you?--> The Circulator - Swim and Save

Maddie

 

[Dirk]

Would this be of any help to you?--> The Circulator - Swim and Save

Interesting. Do we have any anecdotal info on these? Based only on a quick glance of their video, wouldn't these wreck havoc on pH and skimmer action (aeration and no surface rotation)? The dye dispersal was very impressive, though.

 

[PoolGate]

Interesting. Do we have any anecdotal info on these? Based only on a quick glance of their video, wouldn't these wreck havoc on pH and skimmer action (aeration and no surface rotation)? The dye dispersal was very impressive, though.

I don't think these do any aeration. I know the video shows it but there is no place for them to get air from. I think they injected air to show them working. Also no way to get more information from the website or order one. I think this is perhaps some concept invention that isn't really available anywhere.

 

[Dirk]

I don't think these do any aeration. I know the video shows it but there is no place for them to get air from. I think they injected air to show them working. Also no way to get more information from the website or order one. I think this is perhaps some concept invention that isn't really available anywhere.

Ah. That sounds right. Either way, looks to be a solution looking for a problem...

 

[jatkinson]

My pool has 3 larger returns along the bottom. They are known as "deep heat returns" and due to heat rising, when heated water comes out of them, convection takes over and mixes the water. I leave them on 100% of the time. Whatever you choose, a desirable outcome is a slow turn in one direction to aid the skimmers.

Good stuff guys. I'm in the planning stage and it's important I keep water on the move especially at lower levels.. The added benefit of heat return conducted at the lower levels is brilliant. Skippies circulator link is interesting.

I've seen lots of pools through the years with some anemic looking circulation so this is not a solution looking for a problem when you have the ability to engineer it correctly from the start.

- - - Updated - - -

Here is a better link to that spinning thing.
http://www.thecirculator.com/index.html

 

[Dirk]

I meant the spinnie return thing-a-ma-bob. Your's is the correct solution, a properly engineered circulation system at build time.

I don't doubt the Circulators will dispense return water better throughout the pool. But I contend they'll trash your skimming. And at least in my pool, skimming governs pump runtime as much or more than anything else. Chlorine gets mixed in just fine, as I maintain a constant level, and one well above the minimum required by my pool, so it doesn't matter at all that added chlorine takes 15 minutes or 2 hours to mix in, my pool is constantly sanitized. The rotation developed by my fixed returns is conducive to good skimming, the Circulators would destroy that... And even if they don't actually bubble as depicted in the video, if they disturb the surface while pointing up, they're going to raise pH by some amount. I already have more of that going on than I need, with high TA fill water, so that's another reason to avoid these things. Again, for me, in my pool. Others might have use for them, I suppose. Just beware of the downsides.

I like the idea of deep returns. I wouldn't pay to add any now, but I'd design them into a new pool, for sure. Each return would be on a dedicated line with valve, so that I'd have maximum control over circulation. Additionally, I'd be able to close off a return line should it develop a leak, without impacting the pool more than necessary. I'd either just abandon it, or at a minimum be able to stop the leak until the opportunity arose to fix it properly. With a big loop serving every return from one line and one valve, that capability would not be available when needed...

 

[jatkinson]

Exactly Dirk... NOW is the time to figure out the best placement for them. I want the swirl up top feeding the skimmers, one or two on the sun shelf and a few deepwater to keep the corners from collecting stuff. I'm in a unique situation and have absolutely square corners. Good call on the addition of valving to get max control over this. Underground repairs is a non-event in my circumstance.