Losing the Resistant Mustard Algae Battle

Another Update:

This is the beginning of the 4th day of the second round of chelated copper treatment. I always do my last full pool brushing when I do the last chlorine dose which is when the sun starts going down. Recently, I have only been seeing sparse thin white patches in the shallow end and a white sediment line along the crease on both sides of the slant that goes down to the deep end and and along the crease in the deep end. Unfortunately, yesterday's events made it to where I wasn't able to check and dose the FC until 6:30 PM. At that time the stuff in the pool looked like what I just described and the FC was 15 (ugh!). So....I added enough cal-hypo to get it up to FC = 40 and brushed. When I checked the level around 10 PM, it was 39.5......this morning at 8:30 AM the FC was 34.5 and there was more of the white stuff than there has been over the last 4 mornings. Although....It somewhat seems that most of it makes a pattern consistent with return flow (which is a first).

A new component to my saga:

I finally got to talk to my neighbor, who also has an in-ground vinyl liner pool, about my pool issue. Surprise...surprise.....he had been dealing with the same EXACT scenario. He said that he spoke with the water treatment specialist where he works. They told him that mustard algae has been making a come back and that was what he seemed to have. They also said my neighbor should raise the pH in his pool to between 8.5 and 9 while keeping the chlorine on the upper end of normal. So my neighbor added the soda ash and kept the FC as advised. After 1 week, the sediment quit showing up, but left white stains in his blue liner everywhere it persisted. He says he knows he is only keeping it a bay, but at least they have been able to swim. For him, completely eradicating it was not paramount because he is changing the liner out this year anyway due to its age.
 
I finally got to talk to my neighbor, who also has an in-ground vinyl liner pool, about my pool issue. Surprise...surprise.....he had been dealing with the same EXACT scenario. He said that he spoke with the water treatment specialist where he works. They told him that mustard algae has been making a come back and that was what he seemed to have.

I really believe your neighbor is off base in believing this. How can an employee at a water treatment facility claim that a trend of mustard algae is on the rise? I will allow others to comment on this post, but that sounds crazy! A pool that is chlorinated properly based on CYA rarely has any issues, unless there are circulation problems, filter problems, etc. Even at super high phosphates, pools can be kept under control. Mustard Algae does not just show up as they were coming back from vacation. Pools with limited returns, skimmers and main drains will also need to be brushed thoroughly at least twice per week.
 
Anything you put back in the pool may have the spores. Did you clean behind the light?
Change or backwash filter material. Clean it. Vacuum to waste the loose algae. I’m fighting it too, and these are things I’ve tried/read.
I’m about to slam again.
Has anyone used an ionizer?
 
Hi Jannylee53,

Thanks for commenting and for your suggestions.

Yes, I have been keeping all of my pool equipment, nets, etc. in the shallow end throughout the whole treatment and I pull my vac hose out and re-sink it every night after the last chlorine dose. Also, we soaked and thoroughly cleaned the new DE grid filter in a 10% bleach solution and scrubbed all hardware and the housing a couple of weeks ago. I only vacuum to waste (filling the pool to do so right now). So far, I brush everything I can at least twice a day. Unfortunately, I would have to drain the water below our lights to remove them and the company that did the liner said they would only advise that when the liner is changed again.

I hope you have better luck with whatever is in your pool. Please keep me posted:)
 
Has anyone used an ionizer?

Forget about an ionizer! Chlorine kills algae! Again, chlorine kills algae! If you are fighting algae, your levels dropped below your CYA for a short period of time. In addition, you may have missed a brushing or more due to circulation dead spots. A pool that has "crystal clear water" will loose its sparkle and go dull way before algae sets in. Only had a minor issue with the solar cover and probably due to dead spots as cover restricted the movement of water, in addition to possibly allowing levels to drift down.
 
Catanzaro.....the same questions you raise are the same ones that went through my mind. I just figured the water treatment specialist that is contracted by his company meant that he's seeing an increase in the number of issues with it. I did mention that it was always my understanding that lower pH allowed the chlorine to work better during treatments even though his pool is now mustard sediment free. Maybe it's actually raising the TA that is needed as mentioned in an old thread discussion on TFP? He did say he added soda ash for increasing pH, so I don't know.

I am very diligent with my pool and have been following how the forum suggests to maintain the pool since 2013 . I am not advocating that people do a certain procedure than what is promoted here. For both myself and my neighbor, this stuff showed up at opening in the spring. And....I am very OCD about pool closing procedures. Up until this spring opening, my dolphin was put in the pool for 3 hours every other day and I brushed the pool on its off-days while the pool is open. Until this mustard algae, I've had 3 green algae blooms.....when I had surgery, and at 2 of the pool openings. I cleared the 1st one up with Green Treat (before I found TFP) and the other 2 with the SLAM procedure.


I keep adding info because I am just trying to get help and hoping that somehow my situation may help somebody else.
 
Hi Jannylee53,

Thanks for commenting and for your suggestions.

Yes, I have been keeping all of my pool equipment, nets, etc. in the shallow end throughout the whole treatment and I pull my vac hose out and re-sink it every night after the last chlorine dose. Also, we soaked and thoroughly cleaned the new DE grid filter in a 10% bleach solution and scrubbed all hardware and the housing a couple of weeks ago. I only vacuum to waste (filling the pool to do so right now). So far, I brush everything I can at least twice a day. Unfortunately, I would have to drain the water below our lights to remove them and the company that did the liner said they would only advise that when the liner is changed again.

I hope you have better luck with whatever is in your pool. Please keep me posted:)

Yes, I read further down and noted all of your struggles. It’s just very difficult. I think having the DE filter is a little tricky. Did you spray down or clean out your robot with bleach product? I’m just thinking out loud.

I’m going to try the copper ionization. Not sure what that will do. My other pool had a UV light. I never had issues. I’m not sure that had anything to do with it. They say the mustard algae can be introduced via swimsuits from the ocean, etc. I just am learning and reading. This pool had algae apparently when we bought the house. Lots of staining present. We have gunite with plaster finish. There is lots of foliage around the pool, including crape myrtle flowers- and we kept pump off for two days per our leak detection guy. That is when we started seeing this. Just had an acid bath and cleaning done by a professional. It’s much better. But still going to slam as we are seeing the patches each morning.
In any case, I’m following this post. Best of luck.
Janny
 
I did mention that it was always my understanding that lower pH allowed the chlorine to work better during treatments even though his pool is now mustard sediment free.

The reason why PH is lowered to 7.2 during a SLAM is that liquid chlorine will raise PH and then as the chlorine burns off, the PH will drop down to normal. Once your pool is back to normal, keep your CYA/FC ratio in tact, brush pool at least twice weekly and enjoy your pool.
 
Forget about an ionizer! Chlorine kills algae! Again, chlorine kills algae! If you are fighting algae, your levels dropped below your CYA for a short period of time. In addition, you may have missed a brushing or more due to circulation dead spots. A pool that has "crystal clear water" will loose its sparkle and go dull way before algae sets in. Only had a minor issue with the solar cover and probably due to dead spots as cover restricted the movement of water, in addition to possibly allowing levels to drift down.

Yes, we have purchased this home which had a pool that appeared to have leaks, not well maintained with staining. While looking for leaks, we were advised to keep pumps off. Took
Us a while to get the CYA levels up. Yes, the perfect storm. Point is, we have it. And it’s resistant to chlorine except at high levels. We’ve struggled with it and continue to do so. Just want to know if anyone has used an ionizer. Thanks though. I know you’re 100% right.
 
Did you spray down or clean out your robot with bleach product?

Fortunately, I saw this stuff and realized I had a problem before ever using it. It has not been used this season.

For me, I'm going to try and vacuum to waste the stuff I can see. I am hoping it is all truly dead. But, this stuff has a tendency to look like that only to reappear the next day. Chelated copper has made it to where I only see white stuff and there is less.

Let me know how your efforts turn out.

Good Luck:)
 

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Oh, yes, I would most definitely use both. Just trying to see if anyone has any experience with it. And I did mean that you are 100% right. [emoji3]
I’ve used TFP ideas for 3 years or maybe 4 and I swear by them. Worked beautifully on our new pool. But this old one was in bad shape when we got it. Not well maintained. So I’ve been trying to get it corrected.
I think once we replaster, it will get easier to maintain.
 
Hopefully, this is the beginning of my last update:kim:

Well....the second round of chelated copper made the enemy whiter and less in number across the floor with the water being cloudier, but my floor still felt slick in many areas when brushing. And.... in the deep end, the tacky stuff was coming back!!!!

So, I decided that there must be a protective biofilm with this one and wanted to find something that could address that while I still had enough copper in the pool.

My prior research had uncovered a product that works on biofilms, so I found a local PS that might carry it.

I took a water sample to the store and began unraveling my whole saga to them.... they felt sorry for me....and decided to give me a bottle of chelated copper algaecide and the last 2 tablets they had of a product they said was just like the one I was looking for, but less expensive.

At that point, my copper level was 0.2 PPM and my FC was 7 PPM with CYA at 12 PPM. I was shocked that my pH had maintained at 7.4 and TA at 72, but......all that cal hypo took me from 140 to 350......oh boy. I guess I stopped that just in time. But....being below a FC of 30 had allowed more of the enemy to show up.

So.......as soon as I got home from the PS, I put 1 of the tabs in the deep end skimmer and 1 in one of the shallow end skimmers. My pool really should have had 4, but she only had 2 on hand. I wanted to vacuum all of the apparent white sacrifices of the enemy and the increased blobs, but a storm changed those plans. She also told me to put my tab floaters back into the pool with 2 tabs in each, for a total of 6 (which I did). Then she told me to add the bottle of chelated copper when my free chlorine dropped to 5. (I didn’t add a third bottle of chelated copper)

- - - Updated - - -

When I went out to collect a water sample around 10:00 the next morning, the water was like diamonds and the enemy had not increased in number since the prior evening (but was becoming more yellowish). The usual presence on my skimmers was not anywhere to be seen and my top step was unusually clear. When I did vacuum the day after adding the tabs, the floor was definitely less slick, and there were white spots left behind wherever the stuff was (another 1st). Did I ever say that I hate this stuff?!

The pool seemed to be going in a better direction. I was concerned that some of the new anti-biofilm product went out of the pool when I used the vacuum to waste mode, but I refused to plaster the enemy on my filter grids.

The product supposedly takes care of the plumbing, equipment, and pool......we'll see. Its ultimate effects are supposed to be evident in 2-3 weeks. Oh boy.... just in time for the end of the pool season
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I went out at 8:30 the following morning to take another water sample (while dreading what the enemy would look) and stood by the pool for at least 5 minutes in disbelief.

Here's the visual:

  • The water still looked like glass and diamonds
  • There was no strip/mound of stuff along the crease along the slope or around the floor in the deep end
  • There was none of it along the seams
  • There was no spattering of patches or lines of any stuff on the floors
  • There were only a few small tiny gray spots on one end of the shallow (not sure if new or missed with the vacuum)
  • The steps were clear (even the hint of yellow stain from when the previous owners left the pool closed for 2 yrs was gone!)
  • There was no form of debris on the surface on the skimmers in front of the weir (a first since this started)
  • The water felt soft
  • And.....my pump had not had a decrease in water level above the basket in 24 hours (a problem that began a week before, not severe, but indicated something needed addressed)
  • My FC was still 6.5-7 and the CC was 0-0.2 (holding with just floaters in the pool....yaaaay!)


I was soooo excited about the prospect of this working!!!!!!!


And.... still held off on adding the 3rd bottle of chelated copper.

I can't believe that it had taken a full 3 months to have hope that the pool might be saved.

- - - Updated - - -

A few side notes:
I never put my Dolphin cleaner in the pool. But If I had, I would thoroughly clean it with a bleach solution and get new filter bags (or cartridges) and only manually vacuum the pool until the stuff didn’t return for a week.
Everything can re-introduce the spores of this stuff back into the pool if the item(s) are in the pool while the live mustard algae is present.

Also, ANYTHING I use in the pool with this stuff remains in the shallow end during the treatment and I always re-submerge my vac hose with every new algaecide or shock addition.

- - - Updated - - -

Fast Forward to Day 5:

I had been maintaining a copper level (from the chelated copper) of 0.2 PPM and FC around 5 PPM. My CYA was 15 PPM.

I had been trying to keep the copper between 0.2 and 0.3 PPM to help fight this stuff.

I don't have a means to tests nitrates or copper right now, so on day 4 I took a sample to Leslie's and to another PS that uses a machine.

The PS with the machine gave me my copper reading and all of their other numbers matched the ones I have been getting with my Taylor FAS-DPD test kit. They didn't check nitrates or phosphates...not sure why and I didn't notice that until I got to Leslie's.

Leslie's usually matches my numbers fairly well.... but not that day. Also, they were out of a means to check copper, but said my phosphates were around 500 and nitrates were 20-30(?!). I'm not sure whether to trust the nitrates number because I've NEVER had them until that reading and their other numbers were off from mine and the other PS's.
When I got home, I checked the nitrates with the strips I had and got a reading of maybe 5.

The pool still looked great. I did decide to vac to waste what I didn't get on Aug 2nd, but it was getting dark. So again, I may have missed some.

Also, there still was no more growth in the seams, in the creases, on the steps, or on the skimmers (which had been 4 days.... Yaaaay!) The water continued to look like diamonds and the fixtures kept getting cleaner looking. And....my pump basket water level had not gone down in 4 days.

Also, my FC remained unchanged at 4.5 through the night and my CC remained at 0.

- - - Updated - - -

Today is Day 6:
I am excited to say there are still no new spots, the fixtures continue to look great, the pump is running well, and my FC is still holding with no CC’s.

I am going to order a pail of the tabs I used. I know it's expensive, but not compared to what I have been spending. My husband alerted me to the fact that I have spent over $600 on liquid chlorine and I spent $300 in just cal-hypo last week! A representative of the company that sells the product told me that the product lasts for years without losing its potency....so if it’sn true, that is a plus.

I will be using this product throughout the pool season next year. After that, I will try to do without it.

I will always maintain my pool with the TFP method…. I love it……and I am a believer.

But……if this particular nasty algae starts to show up again, I’m going for the chelated copper and the biofilm abolishing tabs ASAP! I hope everyone understands why.

Louanne
 
I will always maintain my pool with the TFP method
Glad it is working for you but your methods are not TFP. TFP does NOT endorse the use of copper.
...wanted to find something that could address that while I still had enough copper in the pool.
Copper does not leave your pool. It doesn't evaporate or oxidize. It only accumulates until it gets to a point where it precipitates onto your pool surfaces.
 
Sorry.....I should have been more specific with that statement.

I meant that after this battle is definitely over, the ONLY time I will resort to the methods I recently used is if I see this particular algae in my pool.

As Dave mentioned, Copper never leaves your pool. I believe that the copper in the water will eventually lead to more headaches. Chlorine can take care of 99.99% of all situations, thereby not needing anything else at an added expense.
 
For me, the copper level has decreased after several times vacuuming to waste and a couple of backwashes. My copper level today was 0.1 PPM. I knew I would be vacuuming this stuff to waste and backwashing due to the resilience of the algae that was plaguing the pool.

For those who have not had this stuff in their pools, I hope you never do. It is nasty business. Even when you vanquish it, it leaves what looks like bleached patterns in the liner. (Not from adding chemicals. I always dilute and pour slowly in front of the returns).

I do feel that the Aquafinesse tabs that breaks up biofilm is what can take most of the credit in defeating this stuff. Everything shifted for the better within 12 hours of putting the tabs in the skimmers. It helps the chlorine get in and kill the scourge.

If I could rewind back 3 months ago to the beginning of the battle (knowing what I know now), I would just use the Aquafinesse tabs with the SLAM method followed by the mustard algae SLAM (if still needed). What I spent on 1 tub of those tabs (which will last me 1 1/2 months) is what I spent every 2 weeks on liquid chlorine. When I switched to cal-hypo.....we won't even go there:(


As of 8:30 PM:

FC = 5
CC =0
pH = 7.7
TA = 80
CH = 290
CYA = 15 (PS store) for me, I could still see the dot at 20 PPM, but the water was slightly cloudy
copper = 0.1 PPM

And no sign of the enemy.

I'm going to add instant stabilizer tomorrow and then wait 2 more days before adding salt so I can use the SWCG.


I'm just glad my family will finally get to use the pool this season :D
 
I have to add that the methods and products you chose have little to do with TFP.

For you to vacuum the copper to waste, it had to precipitate, sink and then get vacuumed up.....it should have been visible....did you see it?

Aquafinesse tabs are mostly washing soda which raises pH and TA. I can't find any science that suggests it is useful in a pool except for that purpose

Algae, regardless of type, DOES NOT stain a pool liner......I don't know what did but it wasn't algae.

TFP teaches the measured and fairly precise application of chlorine to keep a pool sanitary and crystal clear. TFP also teaches not to use chemistry in your pool when the outcome is unknown
 
Pharmcoder:

When your pool was filled up, the water was super clean, unless it came from a well. Only over time, what has been added to the pool, whether it be human or environment is what caused the problem. Manufacturers claim that copper treats pool, which in fact may very well, but there is always side effects (as you are seeing in your dealings). There is no substitute to a properly TFP maintained pool with liquid chlorine or the use of an SWG.

Your pool may be different, but it is like a human trying to resolve his/her health issues and daily life by supplementing proper water balance and nutrition with all vitamins and minerals and the magic potions they sell all over the stores and internet. Only add to your pool what is needed, just like your body. There are certain extra's we add as humans, but there is no substitute for the best choice. Anything else is just wasted time and money.
 

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