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Thread: YES, another bonding question

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    uxbridgechris's Avatar
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    YES, another bonding question

    Fiberglass pool. concrete deck with no steel mesh, no steel ladders or hand rails. No steel or aluminum anywhere near the pool.


    ordered the bondsafe 680 that sits in the skimmer. Is it as simple as running an 8 gauge bare copper ground to the ground lugs on my pump and heater?

    Thanks.
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    CJadamec's Avatar
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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    Is this a new pool being built or one that is already built?

    Canada has different bonding rules than the US. I am not familiar with all the regulations I Canada.

    Minimum wire size for bonding in Canada is #6.

    Leaving the deck around the pool out of the bonding system is not a safe thing to do.
    Chuck-
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    uxbridgechris's Avatar
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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    Quote Originally Posted by CJadamec View Post
    Is this a new pool being built or one that is already built?

    Canada has different bonding rules than the US. I am not familiar with all the regulations I Canada.

    Minimum wire size for bonding in Canada is #6.

    Leaving the deck around the pool out of the bonding system is not a safe thing to do.
    In my province the Electrical Safety Athority says on their website that bonding is not required for fiberglass pools.

    pool is being built now. I wanted to go above and beyond local code. but I am not using steel mesh in concrete.
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    Blue Hawaiian “Wellington” FG pool 6500 Gal. Raypak 266 NG Nickle plated, 3/4hp Hayward super pump, Heater Reader wifi / app controller. Pentair 420 sq' cartridge filter. Hayward 25k SWG
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    CJadamec's Avatar
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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    To go above and beyond would require steel in the concrete. Bonding the pool without bonding it to the deck around the pool is not a good idea and is actually less safe than no bonding at all.

    To bond the deck you will need steel reinforcement in the concrete. If you are doing a poured concrete deck.
    Chuck-
    15x30 AG, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    In absence of rebar in the decking, the NEC states;
    (1) At Least one minimum 8 AWG bare solid copper conductor shall be provided.
    (2) The conductors shall follow the contour of the perimeter surface.
    (3) Only listed splices shall be permitted.
    (4) The required conductor shall be 450mm to 600mm (18" to 24") from the inside walls of the pool.
    (5) The required conductor shall be secured within or under the perimeter surface 100mm to 150mm (4" to 6") below the subgrade.

    Since Canada requires #6 AWG for bonding, I'd use the above guidelines and use #6 instead of #8. Since you're bonding the water, this should provide a complete bonding system.

    I also believe that Canada also prohibits the bonding wiring and ground wiring to directly connect (though I may have that wrong). The NEC doesn't require a connection between the two, but doesn't prohibit a connection between them either.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    Someone from Canada mentioned that the bond wire does actually connect to the sub-panel ground.
    Part of their safety code.
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    Interesting. I just found this in a quick search.
    pool bonding conductor specified by Rule 68-058 (1) is not required to be connected to a grounding electrode.
    We need someone with an actual Canadian code book to look up the relevant code for this.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    uxbridgechris's Avatar
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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    I have a simplified code book somewhere but it's 15 years old. I will pickup a new one.
    Blue Hawaiian “Wellington” FG pool 6500 Gal. Raypak 266 NG Nickle plated, 3/4hp Hayward super pump, Heater Reader wifi / app controller. Pentair 420 sq' cartridge filter. Hayward 25k SWG
    Pal LED pool lighting. Jandy K-1100 Electronic Autofiller Build thread here: 2018: Fiberglass install uxbridge ointario

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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    Quote Originally Posted by borjis View Post
    Someone from Canada mentioned that the bond wire does actually connect to the sub-panel ground.
    Part of their safety code.
    Correct, that is what my electrician told me aswell
    Pool: 10'x20'x4' - 6,000gal - Vinyl Liner IG - Hayward Maxflow VSP SP23520VSP - Hayward H250ED2 250k - Hayward Prologic 8 - Hayward T-Cell-15 SWG - Hayward 24" LED waterfalls (x3) - Hayward GVA-24 3-way - Hayward Aqua Connect - Hayward Wireless Table top Remote - Pentair Posi-Clear RP Cartridge filter 200sq - AquaLamp 12v LED multicolor pool lights (x2) - Inline Zinc anode rod

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    uxbridgechris's Avatar
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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    So bond wire (6 gauge) in the slab vs using reinforcing mesh (because we all know steel mesh is a useless
    Then my bondsafe 680 plate in the skimmer. all tied into panel ground.

    On a side note, single strand 6 gauge is hard to find here. Whenever I've changed or upgraded my electrical panels I've always used a #6 ground but it has been stranded. that's all the supply stores carry.
    Blue Hawaiian “Wellington” FG pool 6500 Gal. Raypak 266 NG Nickle plated, 3/4hp Hayward super pump, Heater Reader wifi / app controller. Pentair 420 sq' cartridge filter. Hayward 25k SWG
    Pal LED pool lighting. Jandy K-1100 Electronic Autofiller Build thread here: 2018: Fiberglass install uxbridge ointario

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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    Quote Originally Posted by uxbridgechris View Post
    So bond wire (6 gauge) in the slab vs using reinforcing mesh (because we all know steel mesh is a useless
    Then my bondsafe 680 plate in the skimmer. all tied into panel ground.
    And also tied to BOTH your pump motor bond lug as well as the heater bond lug.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
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    uxbridgechris's Avatar
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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    10-4, thank you.

    I will also verify with with the inspector and report back.
    Blue Hawaiian “Wellington” FG pool 6500 Gal. Raypak 266 NG Nickle plated, 3/4hp Hayward super pump, Heater Reader wifi / app controller. Pentair 420 sq' cartridge filter. Hayward 25k SWG
    Pal LED pool lighting. Jandy K-1100 Electronic Autofiller Build thread here: 2018: Fiberglass install uxbridge ointario

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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    I went to Primary Electric Supply to buy my lugs and #6 stranded wire. The bill after tax for 30ft and 2 lugs was $37

    Make sure that the bonding lugs are stamped DB (direct burial) if you are going to have them below grade. I used the copper/tin plated lug for my install which passed inspection.

    http://www.elecdirect.com/media/specsheets/154WMP.pdf
    Pool: 10'x20'x4' - 6,000gal - Vinyl Liner IG - Hayward Maxflow VSP SP23520VSP - Hayward H250ED2 250k - Hayward Prologic 8 - Hayward T-Cell-15 SWG - Hayward 24" LED waterfalls (x3) - Hayward GVA-24 3-way - Hayward Aqua Connect - Hayward Wireless Table top Remote - Pentair Posi-Clear RP Cartridge filter 200sq - AquaLamp 12v LED multicolor pool lights (x2) - Inline Zinc anode rod

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    uxbridgechris's Avatar
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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    Pool update 31-May-18 passed electrical inspection! - YouTube

    finished bonding and passed inspection.
    Blue Hawaiian “Wellington” FG pool 6500 Gal. Raypak 266 NG Nickle plated, 3/4hp Hayward super pump, Heater Reader wifi / app controller. Pentair 420 sq' cartridge filter. Hayward 25k SWG
    Pal LED pool lighting. Jandy K-1100 Electronic Autofiller Build thread here: 2018: Fiberglass install uxbridge ointario

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    borjis's Avatar
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    Re: YES, another bonding question

    sweet!
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
    Dolphin E10 Cleaning Robot.

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