Your best time to shock the pool is at night. I would not wait til 6am to boost it up. I'd do it ASAP, as soon as you lose significant shock levels <i.e.> 9ppm.
Green pool - new pool owner
- Thread starter adadof3
- Start date
With regard to the ammonia possibility, there are some simple rules to keep in mind. First, if there is measurable Free Chlorine (other than a possible test error of one drop eliminating slight pink), then there can be no ammonia as the two combine quickly to form monochloramine -- by quickly, I mean in 10 seconds or less if there is no CYA and in a few minutes if there is a normal amount of CYA. So if you've got FC, you don't have ammonia. If there is no FC and adding chlorine doesn't register any FC 20-30 minutes after adding chlorine (and there is no test error, such as bleaching out a DPD chlorine test), then ammonia is likely present (even without CYA and in sunlight, only half of the FC should get removed by sunlight in a half hour).
Second, ammonia doesn't just come out of the blue -- it pretty much only comes in substantial quantities from bacteria converting CYA into ammonia and that should not happen unless the chlorine level got very low and close to zero (otherwise the bacteria should not grow). Ammonia also comes from bather load, but in amounts that chlorine gets rid of in hours (unless you've got a pool full of kids/people urinating). So another sign that you've probably got ammonia is if the FC went to zero and the CYA dropped substantially during that period of time without any other explanation (such as water dilution).
Richard
Second, ammonia doesn't just come out of the blue -- it pretty much only comes in substantial quantities from bacteria converting CYA into ammonia and that should not happen unless the chlorine level got very low and close to zero (otherwise the bacteria should not grow). Ammonia also comes from bather load, but in amounts that chlorine gets rid of in hours (unless you've got a pool full of kids/people urinating). So another sign that you've probably got ammonia is if the FC went to zero and the CYA dropped substantially during that period of time without any other explanation (such as water dilution).
Richard
Just back from snother 6am start at the pool, and no visible progress. FC down to around 12ppm, so added another 500g of shock. I did in fact add an extra 500g at 11pm last night, before going to bed.
So, 6kg of shock, and 36 hours in, with constant shock levels, and still getting nowhere.
So, 6kg of shock, and 36 hours in, with constant shock levels, and still getting nowhere.
Wife tells me that we are down to 12ppm FC, so have asked her to add another 500g. Perhaps check mid-afternoon, and add another 500g, otherwise I will start the process of adding a further 1.5kg at around 6pm.
If no sign of progress by tomorrow morning, I feel that it will be time to call it a day and admit defeat.
Have revisited pool school several times, but really cannot see where I might be going wrong.
One thing that I should have added, is that temperature of water seems to jump when shock is added. This probably normal, just thought I should mention it.
If no sign of progress by tomorrow morning, I feel that it will be time to call it a day and admit defeat.
Have revisited pool school several times, but really cannot see where I might be going wrong.
One thing that I should have added, is that temperature of water seems to jump when shock is added. This probably normal, just thought I should mention it.
And your evening update is:
5pm - 10ppm FC - added 1.5kg of shock
Also spent a long period backwashing/rinsing filter. Perhaps I have not been as meticulous here as I should have been.
Think I am resigned to the fact that tomorrow morning will bring no improvement; I can but hope though.
5pm - 10ppm FC - added 1.5kg of shock
Also spent a long period backwashing/rinsing filter. Perhaps I have not been as meticulous here as I should have been.
Think I am resigned to the fact that tomorrow morning will bring no improvement; I can but hope though.
Don't appear to have lost much FC at all this morning, it is still at around 18. No improvement at all though in the pool; if anything, it is worse than it was a week ago. Completely illogical, isn't it?
Only other thing to note is that the pH appears to have dropped off, down to around 6.8.
Think I have taken this as far as I possibly can, seems that I have you all stumped too. Have not added any more shock this morning, am disinclined to do anything else to be honest.
Thanks for all of the responses earlier on this thread. If I ever do get this sorted, I will post back to let you know what the problem, and more importntly the solution, were.
Thanks again.
Only other thing to note is that the pH appears to have dropped off, down to around 6.8.
Think I have taken this as far as I possibly can, seems that I have you all stumped too. Have not added any more shock this morning, am disinclined to do anything else to be honest.
Thanks for all of the responses earlier on this thread. If I ever do get this sorted, I will post back to let you know what the problem, and more importntly the solution, were.
Thanks again.
This is surprising,
May I suggest taking a bucket of green pool water and actually tipping in some shock or bleach to see it die and change to milky grey.
May I suggest taking a bucket of green pool water and actually tipping in some shock or bleach to see it die and change to milky grey.
Hi Teapot,
Have done this, but not sure what it has proved. Can you clarify what you want, and what should happen?
I took 4 litres of green water from the pool (it is very green now - visibility in the pool is little over 12 inches); to this I added a solution made from around a pint of tapwater, plus 10g or so of shock. Water changed from green to grey-green. Stired for a minute or so, and it was still grey-green, a couple of minutes later it was unchanged.
Is this what you would have expected, or have I added too much shock? Should I leave it for longer to reduce all of the green? If you could clarify, I can repeat the process. Perhaps I can even post some pictures to show the results.
Thanks again for the interest, I look forward to your further advice.
Have done this, but not sure what it has proved. Can you clarify what you want, and what should happen?
I took 4 litres of green water from the pool (it is very green now - visibility in the pool is little over 12 inches); to this I added a solution made from around a pint of tapwater, plus 10g or so of shock. Water changed from green to grey-green. Stired for a minute or so, and it was still grey-green, a couple of minutes later it was unchanged.
Is this what you would have expected, or have I added too much shock? Should I leave it for longer to reduce all of the green? If you could clarify, I can repeat the process. Perhaps I can even post some pictures to show the results.
Thanks again for the interest, I look forward to your further advice.
Can see bottom of bucket now. Water in it still a little murky, and there is definitely tiny grey matter towards the top.
This tells me either:
1. 10g of shock will start to clear 4 litres in an hour or so; hence, by extrapolation, around 340 kg will do likewise in a 30k gallon pool! Clearly a smaller quantity will do it in a quicker time.
2. A different reaction is occurring in the bucket, to in the pool. Could it be that there are pockets of algae that the sweep has missed, which are preventing the shock from having the full affect?
Thoughts appreciated.
Thanks.
This tells me either:
1. 10g of shock will start to clear 4 litres in an hour or so; hence, by extrapolation, around 340 kg will do likewise in a 30k gallon pool! Clearly a smaller quantity will do it in a quicker time.
2. A different reaction is occurring in the bucket, to in the pool. Could it be that there are pockets of algae that the sweep has missed, which are preventing the shock from having the full affect?
Thoughts appreciated.
Thanks.
...and after 3 hours, bucket is almost clear, with a very fine sandy type substance covering the bottom. I assume that this is dead algae.
Could it be that there is just far too much algae in the pool for the chlorine to cope with? If so, perhaps best bet is to drain and refresh next spring? Cost of water for refill would be around £150, this is less though than I have spent on bleach/shock over the last couple of months.
Definite autumnal feel in the air here; am not sure pool would be used much this year, even if it were to clear now.
Could it be that there is just far too much algae in the pool for the chlorine to cope with? If so, perhaps best bet is to drain and refresh next spring? Cost of water for refill would be around £150, this is less though than I have spent on bleach/shock over the last couple of months.
Definite autumnal feel in the air here; am not sure pool would be used much this year, even if it were to clear now.
frustratedpoolmom said:
Hi,
Calcium Hypochlorite 65%, as here:
http://www.swimmingpoolchemicals.co.uk/ ... fsp69ojnc6
Have you thought that maybe it's the filter? I'm just throwing it out there. :| My neighbors pool <the one that did an atomic shock> couldn't clear her pool even after the shock because there was something wrong with her sand filter, it wasn't filtering. It'd blow and circulate the pool but would not clear it. It cleared soon after she replaced the filter.
I too just noticed you don't even have a signature. How are we suppose to know what kind of equipment you have? Maybe the answer could lie there? Just a thought.
I see in your first post that the size of your equipment isn't known. Can you take a picture of all that you have so we can see it. Someone may know exactly what you have. Also, can you take a pic of the pool in all it's beastliness so we can see it for ourselves.
I too just noticed you don't even have a signature. How are we suppose to know what kind of equipment you have? Maybe the answer could lie there? Just a thought.
I see in your first post that the size of your equipment isn't known. Can you take a picture of all that you have so we can see it. Someone may know exactly what you have. Also, can you take a pic of the pool in all it's beastliness so we can see it for ourselves.
So you can see it will be killed and you are starting to hold chlorine so it will happen. As I said in an earlier post it's your call on draining and re-filling vs cost of the battle but you are getting there.
If the sand filter is badly channeled it could pass water through with out filtering but that won't effect the killing just the clearing of the pool.
If the sand filter is badly channeled it could pass water through with out filtering but that won't effect the killing just the clearing of the pool.
Casey said:Have you thought that maybe it's the filter? I'm just throwing it out there. :| My neighbors pool <the one that did an atomic shock> couldn't clear her pool even after the shock because there was something wrong with her sand filter, it wasn't filtering. It'd blow and circulate the pool but would not clear it. It cleared soon after she replaced the filter.
I too just noticed you don't even have a signature. How are we suppose to know what kind of equipment you have? Maybe the answer could lie there? Just a thought.
I see in your first post that the size of your equipment isn't known. Can you take a picture of all that you have so we can see it. Someone may know exactly what you have. Also, can you take a pic of the pool in all it's beastliness so we can see it for ourselves.
Hi Casey,
Thanks for the posting. Have taken some pics, will work out how I can add them, and will update my sig too.
As regards whether it could be the filter, in my ignorance I have assumed that the filter is irrelevant. Assuming the quantity of chemicals added to be correct (and I am now having serious doubts about this), I assumed that the role of the pump/filter was to circualte and effectively stir the water, ensuring that the bleach reached all areas. Does the filter provide more of a role on disposing of algae (alive or dead)?
Filter is a year old, and I was told that sand won't need changing for 10 years. Backwashing does show that the filter is definitely stopping something.
Thanks again.
teapot said:
Yep, shock is definitely effective. My concern though is the amount of shock that seems to be required. Given that I have put £40 in this week, in top of perhaps £100+ (I haven't actually worked it out) over the previous few weeks, with no end still in sight, I think that refill is the answer. Instructions when we moved in though were nothing like this, we were told that perhaps 1.5kg of shock a month would keep everything in shape.
The fact that the pool can get in this sort of condition over just afew weeks of the summer makes me wonder what on earth it would be like in the spring, after being closed for 8 or 9 months. If the amount of chemicals I have put in this month has not made a difference, what would I need in may?
Don't think I am going to bother too much with the pool for the rest of this year. Will read up on closing the pool, and may come back with some questions there, but then I think the hard work will be left to next spring.
Thanks again for all of the advice.
Hopefully signature working now, so will try my luck at adding pics.
Picture of pool, taken this afternoon:
Pic of filter:
For info, multiport is on 'filter'; valve above this (closed) is backwash; first red valve (closed) is vacuum; second red valve (open) is sump; and black valve at bottom (open) is skimmers.
Pic of cleansed water (bucket on right), next to a small sample of pool water that has been allowed to settle for 24 hours:
Given that the algae settles at the bottom, would an option be to switch off the filter, and then vacuum the next morning, to get rid of the algae from the bottom?
Hope these pics help.
Picture of pool, taken this afternoon:
Pic of filter:
For info, multiport is on 'filter'; valve above this (closed) is backwash; first red valve (closed) is vacuum; second red valve (open) is sump; and black valve at bottom (open) is skimmers.
Pic of cleansed water (bucket on right), next to a small sample of pool water that has been allowed to settle for 24 hours:
Given that the algae settles at the bottom, would an option be to switch off the filter, and then vacuum the next morning, to get rid of the algae from the bottom?
Hope these pics help.
Hi adadof3,
Yep that is pretty green.
The filtration does not make a huge difference at this point although as you have said some of the algae is being caught and backwashed away.
It is imprtant to keep the water circulating to make sure of no dead spots.
When you mix your shock and poor it in you should see the local area where you deposit it go milky blue for a second or so as chlorine will kill some of the algae in around 30 seconds. Personally I would increase the shock dose, based on the bucket dose. I will work out some costs compared with the 14% hypochlorite bleach I mentioned before hopefully that could save you some money.
You probably don't believe it at the moment but once you have this beaten the control is so much easier and cheaper than what you are doing now.
The box on the wall (blue) is an aquamatics ioniser, copper /silver (the same as I use) Is this actually wired up to work?
What is your current PH level?
Yep that is pretty green.
The filtration does not make a huge difference at this point although as you have said some of the algae is being caught and backwashed away.
It is imprtant to keep the water circulating to make sure of no dead spots.
When you mix your shock and poor it in you should see the local area where you deposit it go milky blue for a second or so as chlorine will kill some of the algae in around 30 seconds. Personally I would increase the shock dose, based on the bucket dose. I will work out some costs compared with the 14% hypochlorite bleach I mentioned before hopefully that could save you some money.
You probably don't believe it at the moment but once you have this beaten the control is so much easier and cheaper than what you are doing now.
The box on the wall (blue) is an aquamatics ioniser, copper /silver (the same as I use) Is this actually wired up to work?
What is your current PH level?
teapot said:
Hi Teapot,
Difficult to know what is happening when I pour the shock in, as it is milky in appearance anyway. I don't doubt now that the shock works, I am just dumfounded at how much of it I appear to need. I dread to think how much I will need when I try to open in spring.
Spot-on re the aquamatics ioniser, what it does though is anyone's guess. Lights do flash when the filter is on, just the polarity lights though I think.
pH is around 7 to 7.2 at moment; and FC was still at 5 this afternoon, despite nothing being added since Friday!
Thanks for your help and advice.
PH is good for shocking level.
Re the Aquamatics unit, I wonder if it is actually working? It is an older unit possibly a mark4. There are two electrodes in the lid of the pump pre filter can you see the condition of them? If you have a basic volt meter you could test for the 24 volts at the connections through the lid.
Producing copper and silver ions is what it does, copper is a great algaecide (now I know you don't believe that at the moment) but it is, hence why I question whether or not it is actually working. If it is working you MUST get a copper testing kit and check the copper level or you will have more problems.
The cost of bleach to rival your cal hypo shock at 20kg would be £110 ish (100 litres of 14% sodium hypo)
Are you going to carry on the shocking? as you have chlorine holding quite well a good dose (possibly higher than you have been using) could just do it.
Re the Aquamatics unit, I wonder if it is actually working? It is an older unit possibly a mark4. There are two electrodes in the lid of the pump pre filter can you see the condition of them? If you have a basic volt meter you could test for the 24 volts at the connections through the lid.
Producing copper and silver ions is what it does, copper is a great algaecide (now I know you don't believe that at the moment) but it is, hence why I question whether or not it is actually working. If it is working you MUST get a copper testing kit and check the copper level or you will have more problems.
The cost of bleach to rival your cal hypo shock at 20kg would be £110 ish (100 litres of 14% sodium hypo)
Are you going to carry on the shocking? as you have chlorine holding quite well a good dose (possibly higher than you have been using) could just do it.