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Thread: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

  1. Back To Top    #21
    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

    Welcome and Great job on all your planning!

    +1 for SWG! Pays off for me and I'm retired too. I can't imagine lugging 6% bleach around, though also fair to say with TFPC indoors adult pool, your FC consumption is going to be miniscule. A SWG cell might last 10 or 15 years.

    Nothing above is technically wrong, but 2" (50 mm) is fine throughout and it makes the work easier. With a VS pump, you will almost never run higher than mid-speed, and mostly on a low speed. In ten year's time you might decide to drain the pool, and the total electrical cost to do that will be less than what you spend on oddball stuff.

    Sweep elbows don't improve anything other than appearance. Regular female by female 90s are fine and easier to measure when fitting. From the sounds of your ability and research to work it all out, I suggest you do all the plumbing yourself to be sure it's done well. Maybe let someone else do the digging and backfilling . Though by no means necessary, it's a great excuse to buy an electric chopsaw and then you'll have it for other stuff.

    I'll steer out of locations and valves, cause I think your other helpers here are doing a great job! Very relieved to see the drawing with the skimmers valved at the pad. I wouldn't have a main drain myself.

    I would plan for a suction cleaner, and I highly recommend the Pentair Rebel (Warrior). I like letting the filter do it's job rather than having something else to clean. I have yet to change the pump speed or run time to use it. It works fine on low, and if I have a surprise pool party, I put it on medium only if needed to get the vacuuming done quick. It's very simple inside and shows no wear after two seasons and running about 1/2 the total time the pump has run. I wish I had a vacuum port just below the water line in the pool, with the self-closing safety flap, but it has worked fine plugged into the skimmer. I would absolutely not use a pressure cleaner. Being indoors, the cleaner will probably spend more time out of the pool, so a robot sitting on a caddy is less total stuff getting in the way, which might be a consideration, and a robot does some of the brushing which is nice. A suction cleaner left in the pool doesn't look bad the way a robot does because the hose doesn't tangle. (fair warning: you'll get lots of opinions on this one!)

    That's going to be an amazing place. Congrats on retiring and taking on the big project!
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

  2. Back To Top    #22

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    Re: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

    Ok, no need for piping at the filter cleanout plug. Simply drain to ground.


    Check valve BEFORE the filter (which was previously DE) was intended to prevent flow back to the pump. I guess this is no longer needed with the cartridge filter.


    Yes, my mistake... the image orientation of the both 3-way jandy valves AFTER the pump is wrong. The first 3-way controls sending water to the filter -or- bypass the filter and go straight back to the dedicated pressure line. The second 3-way either allows water to continue to the pressure line or allow the pool to be drained. The previously used DE filter had a multiport valve that provided this bypass to waste exit. The alternative to the second 3-way is a hose bibb and a Tee fitting. If water level gets too high (i.e. someone or the AWL messed up and overfilled) this makes it easier to lower the pool water without getting out the sump pump and hose IMO but what do I know... I'm a pool newbie.


    The 3-way jandy where main drains merge with skimmer allows control over the balance of flow from skimmers vs main drains. The image orientation of the valve is wrong. I missed that, but will keep the 3-way.


    Does everyone feel the 2.5" pipes from main drains to the pad are unnecessary ? I've read so many different threads on the importance of bigger pipe size, now it's only the two segments of pipe at the pad between skimmer and pump that need to be 2.5" ?


    Last but not least, is there a minimum or preferred distance between skimmers and returns?
    Pool under design is approx. 13,000 gallon rectangular (30 x 13.5 ft) in-ground concrete pool with avg depth 4.25 ft, no spa, no water features. Pentair 160301 Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, 150 GPM. Hayward SP2303vsp Max-Flo VS Variable-Speed Pump, 230 Volt... in Philippines

  3. Back To Top    #23
    Meadow's Avatar
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    Re: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

    Quote Originally Posted by cfherrman View Post
    I see that meadow x'd out the main drain 3 way valve, should that stay as you can throttle them back as the main drains will only be 10% of suction?
    Sorry! I didn't mean to cause any confusion. As mentioned in my previous post, the orientation of the valve marked with an "X" is wrong as illustrated in the drawing. The handle will only rotate 180 deg on the opposite side the center port and you cannot turn off the center port.

    More here --> http://www.inyopools.com/HowToPage/h...ol-system.aspx
    20k gallons, IG plaster with raised Spa, Hayward C-4000 cartridge, Hayward TriStar SP3202VSP, Hayward H400 gas heater, Hayward Super II (2HP) Spa jets, Hayward Swimpure Plus T-15,
    Intermatic PS3000 SPD, PureLine-PureColor LED's, Dolphin Triton cleaning robot, Taylor K-2006, K-1766, OTO Test kit & various Guess strips.

  4. Back To Top    #24
    cfherrman's Avatar
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    Re: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

    Quote Originally Posted by melinphils View Post
    Ok, no need for piping at the filter cleanout plug. Simply drain to ground.


    Check valve BEFORE the filter (which was previously DE) was intended to prevent flow back to the pump. I guess this is no longer needed with the cartridge filter.


    Yes, my mistake... the image orientation of the both 3-way jandy valves AFTER the pump is wrong. The first 3-way controls sending water to the filter -or- bypass the filter and go straight back to the dedicated pressure line. The second 3-way either allows water to continue to the pressure line or allow the pool to be drained. The previously used DE filter had a multiport valve that provided this bypass to waste exit. The alternative to the second 3-way is a hose bibb and a Tee fitting. If water level gets too high (i.e. someone or the AWL messed up and overfilled) this makes it easier to lower the pool water without getting out the sump pump and hose IMO but what do I know... I'm a pool newbie.


    The 3-way jandy where main drains merge with skimmer allows control over the balance of flow from skimmers vs main drains. The image orientation of the valve is wrong. I missed that, but will keep the 3-way.


    Does everyone feel the 2.5" pipes from main drains to the pad are unnecessary ? I've read so many different threads on the importance of bigger pipe size, now it's only the two segments of pipe at the pad between skimmer and pump that need to be 2.5" ?


    Last but not least, is there a minimum or preferred distance between skimmers and returns?
    The 2.5" piping is only for high speed pumping, at medium and lower speeds it should be unnecessary.

    When I saw your piping setup I thought it left enough play in the system to adjust your skimmers and returns that you can get good circulation by trial and error, people use ping pong balls to check flow.
    Intex 24' x 52" Closed for 2017/18 Winter
    2 Main Drains, hard lined 1.25" and 1.5" PVC
    1/2 HP Intex Pump w/ 42 lb 13" Sand Filter

  5. Back To Top    #25

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    Re: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

    Ok, the jandy 3-way orientations have been fixed. The dedicated pressure line was changed to a dedicated suction. My "pool boy" will clean the pool manually (the old fashioned way) and a suction cleaner (e.g. Pentair Warrior or the Hayward competitor) may be added later. For now, I'm sticking with the Stenner pump and liquid bleach because the salt water generators (with their supporting equipment) are kindof expensive, there are numerous complaints on breaking in a year or two and the manufacturer not honoring warranties, plus the salt corrosion issue. My "pool boy" has a truck and can load up on liquid bleach and in the worst situation I can use Tri-Chlor "pucks" with a floater. I'm retired and I don't carry anything heavier than a beer here... seriously. That's what the maids and helpers are for... and I'm happy to give them a job. System stability, energy efficiency, and less hassles for ME are the priority.

    no price yet for Pentair Eco-Chlor SM 35 ... will find out later this week, just for curiosity.

    Pentair 520555 IntelliChlor IC40 is $645 at Amazon
    Pentair Power Center (AC/DC) is $342 at Amazon
    (either a 2 year or 5 year limited warranty from Pentair, but zero warranty backed by local pool builder)

    Prozone Water Products ECO MASTER RESIDENTIAL POOL Ozone/UV Sterilization System is $826
    Prozone Water Products PZ7-2HO Ozone System Generator is $555
    (2 year limited warranty, again zero warranty backed by local pool builder)

    As some have said, the pool builders won't like me buying all the equipment so if purchased myself at Amazon I have concerns about warranties being honored at all and if they are there's still 3-4 months shipping on returns/replacements unless I want to pay for express air service. If I buy from the pool builder, the $1000 salt system will most definitely cost $2000+ here... and probably $2500 based on how they have marked up other equipment.

    Dropbox - POOL LAYOUT (PLUMBING) #4.png
    Dropbox - POOL LAYOUT (EQUIPMENT) #4.png

    I'd better quit here before the spouse gives me another dirty look for being at the computer all day...haha

    Thanks
    Pool under design is approx. 13,000 gallon rectangular (30 x 13.5 ft) in-ground concrete pool with avg depth 4.25 ft, no spa, no water features. Pentair 160301 Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, 150 GPM. Hayward SP2303vsp Max-Flo VS Variable-Speed Pump, 230 Volt... in Philippines

  6. Back To Top    #26

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    Re: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow View Post
    Pump output to filter input port requires a direct connection to reduce head loss.
    What happens if something in the filter breaks or the check valve AFTER the filter malfunctions, sending debris or bleach/chlorinated water back to the pump. Wouldn't it be a good precaution to have a jandy check valve AFTER the pump but BEFORE the filter ? If was a necessity when using a DE filter.
    Pool under design is approx. 13,000 gallon rectangular (30 x 13.5 ft) in-ground concrete pool with avg depth 4.25 ft, no spa, no water features. Pentair 160301 Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, 150 GPM. Hayward SP2303vsp Max-Flo VS Variable-Speed Pump, 230 Volt... in Philippines

  7. Back To Top    #27
    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

    A couple fundamentals might be helpful.

    It's possible to have no check valves at all, because air has to get into the system for water to flow backwards to the pool (when the system is off). With the system built and operated normally, there's nowhere for air to get in. Solar heating can change this, but you don't have solar heating planned.

    The chlorination point should be the last thing in the system before the pool returns. Manuals will always show a check valve before the chlorination point, but it's really only needed for an inline puck chlorinator, because the pucks sit there dissolving while the system is off, and the water gets very acidic and heavily chlorinated. The acidity and chlorine then diffuses back toward other equipment. Heaters in particular are vulnerable. But your injector, or an SWG, only runs when water is flowing. So the pool water is coming in at, say 4 ppm free chlorine (FC), and after the injector or SWG, the water might be 6 to 10 ppm FC, which will not bother any equipment, even if it could flow backwards.

    If it were mine, I'd put in a flowvis flow meter (which doubles as a check valve) immediately before the Stenner injection point, and that would be my only check valve. If I got talked out of the flowvis, I'd put a jandy check valve in the same spot. It would protect against the Stenner being stuck on for some reason. A SWG would not run with no flow.

    Some people put a check valve before the pump to help with priming, but a self priming pool pump can lift water up a few feet and prime without a problem, and if the system is maintained properly, it won't lose prime anyway, because air can't get in to allow the pump to drain.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

  8. Back To Top    #28
    cfherrman's Avatar
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    Re: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

    Pass on any uv or ozone systems right now, uv might be useful later if you have a cc problem, letting the pool get some sun or good HVAC in the pool room can solve that.
    Intex 24' x 52" Closed for 2017/18 Winter
    2 Main Drains, hard lined 1.25" and 1.5" PVC
    1/2 HP Intex Pump w/ 42 lb 13" Sand Filter

  9. Back To Top    #29

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    Re: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

    Quote Originally Posted by needsajet View Post
    Manuals will always show a check valve before the chlorination point, but it's really only needed for an inline puck chlorinator, because the pucks sit there dissolving while the system is off, and the water gets very acidic and heavily chlorinated.
    I will not use an inline chlorinator, so thanks for explaining why I don't need a check valve before the cartridge filter.

    Here's the primary tile we're planning to use. 57mm Cotto Azure Blue. My assistant is currently negotiating the price down from $5 per 30x30cm sheet (retail price) to hopefully around $3 per sheet.

    Thanks!

    TILE-- SKS COTTO MT 22S BL 9-ITL (57.8mm) Photo-1.jpg
    Pool under design is approx. 13,000 gallon rectangular (30 x 13.5 ft) in-ground concrete pool with avg depth 4.25 ft, no spa, no water features. Pentair 160301 Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, 150 GPM. Hayward SP2303vsp Max-Flo VS Variable-Speed Pump, 230 Volt... in Philippines

  10. Back To Top    #30

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    Re: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

    With the excellent advice from TFP members, here is our (almost) completed swimming pool design and calculation files, which may be useful to someone building a pool themselves the old fashioned way... or building in Philippines. Now, it's time to focus on the final house plan details and upcoming construction. Hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas!

    Dropbox - CURRENT DESIGN
    Pool under design is approx. 13,000 gallon rectangular (30 x 13.5 ft) in-ground concrete pool with avg depth 4.25 ft, no spa, no water features. Pentair 160301 Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, 150 GPM. Hayward SP2303vsp Max-Flo VS Variable-Speed Pump, 230 Volt... in Philippines

  11. Back To Top    #31
    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

    Thanks for that melinphils! And Merry Christmas to you as well

    Not sure maybe this is already covered, but you might want to ask an engineer/architect or check/ask around here regarding ventilation for your pool room. The humidity is a factor for building materials, and the pool room can also be more pleasant with the humidity reduced. I see lots of windows, and that may be all you need, but it just crossed my mind, so thought I'd mention it. Great work on your design!
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

  12. Back To Top    #32

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    Re: Need Advice on Plumbing & Equipment for Pool in Philippines

    One question.

    If this is an indoor pool, I would focus on both a cleaning system and filtering system that works at the micron level. For example, how many leaves or palm husks are you going to get in your pool? I would suggest that with less sun and the chance the FC is going to drop, to focus on a cleaning system that removes the smallest particles, ie algae, which would be a robot. This also scrubs the walls and sucks in and filters the smaller particles. As for a filtering system in tangent w the robot, a 4-part cartridge system w poly-spun hairnets in the skimmer baskets and you're on your way to a Merry Christmas. Unless you leave your doors open and windows w out screens, how is debris going to blow in, how will anything of large size get into the pool?

    Finally, ventilation I also believe is key, as well as materials in the pool room that are not susceptible to corrosion.

    Good luck and Merry CHRISTmas to all - tstex
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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