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Thread: Getting rid of CC...

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    Getting rid of CC...

    I am trying to convert from pool chemicals, and maintaining my pool by following the directions they give me and BBB.

    I think that I have a handle on much of the process. But on a couple occasions, I had a fair amount of CC, but also had decent FC. In this case, the pool store sold me non-chlorine shock to get rid of the CC.

    If I am using BBB and encounter this situation, what should I do?

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    "If I am using BBB and encounter this situation, what should I do?"

    You should raise your FC to shock levels outlined in Pool School. The shock level depends on how much CYA is in your pool, the higher the CYA the higher the FC level needed to shock the pool. That's one of the reasons a good test kit is recommended. You can test to find the exact number of FC in your pool rather than a range.

    Did the pool store test your water and tell you the CC was high? That is another reason for a good test kit. You can trust your numbers and not have to depend on someone who is trying to sell you product everytime they test your water. On this site if your CC is .5 or less you are fine.
    18k Inground Plaster pool / TriStar Variable Speed Pump and Controller
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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    the directions who gives you? the pool store? your FC level was not fine, it was probablt between 1-4ppm which would be too low for your cya level or you wouldn't have gotten cc's to begin with.
    it's basically a one way street here. and the key is the chlorine/cya chart: pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock
    if you would like to tell your story and post current test results, there are several operators standing by ;)
    but reading the pool chemistry section of pool-school/ will be a great help.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    You don't want to use non-chlorine shock.

    What kind of pool store chemicals were you using?

    How does your water look, and are you having any issues now?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    Where I am now:

    Water is crystal clear, which is amazing, since I have not had a pump for three days now. Here are the numbers from the pool store:

    CYA: 124 (Much higher than I thought. At the beginning of the season it was 30).
    FC: 0
    TC: 0
    (Not surprising... with no pump, and my primary source of chlorine being trichlor tabs)
    Bromine: 22 (I was 1/2 way through my Bromine treatment when the pump died)
    PH: 7.9 (Slight miscalculation in Bromine treatment).

    I added 4.5 gallons of bleach and 2 pints of MA and stired things up as best I could. Probably not quite enough chlorine, but I did not want to do too much without a pump to distribute things adequately.

    At the beginning of the season, my initial numbers were something like:
    CYA: 30
    FC: 0
    TC: 7

    The pool store recomended 22 bags of Burn Out 35 (Lithium) @ $250. When I poured that in, the entire surface of the pool was covered in a thick milky froth, and it was bubbling so much I thought it might exlode.

    I got the initial clean up under control, and the point where I had the CC and the FC was before I got the water completely settled.

    I'm now transitioning to BBB. Given my CYA, I'm probably a little late.

    I think I might be starting to understand... would it be correct to say that you should not think of CC as really chlorine, and you actually use chlorine to get rid of CC. What didn't make sense to me about CC is the concept that to get rid of something, you would actually add more of it.

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    CC's are your FC's combining with a bad guy to kill it. if there aren't enough good guys (FC) then they stay in limbo as CC's until enough good guys (more FC) come and help the CC's completely kill off the bad guy.
    pool-school/pool_water_chemistry

    what did your cya get so high from?
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    Chlorine + Organic ---> Chlorine-attached-to-Organic
    .......... OR another way to look at this is
    Free Chlorine + Organic ---> Combined Chlorine

    Then adding more chlorine does the following:

    Chlorine + Chlorine-attached-to-Organic ---> Chloride (salt) + Oxidized-Organic
    .......... OR another way to look at this is
    Free Chlorine + Combined Chlorine ---> Salt + Oxidized-Organic

    I'm using the term "organic" loosely. If it's ammonia (which by most definitions isn't organic) then the combined chlorine is a chloramine and the oxidized-organic is nitrogen gas. Something similar, but more complicated, happens with urea (which is organic). For pathogens and algae, "organic" is a bunch of different chemicals but the principle is the same.

    You can consider Combined Chlorine to be an intermediate product in the step towards completely oxidizing organics in the pool. The first step of chlorine combining with an organic is relatively fast while the second step of chlorine fully oxidizing a combined chlorine is generally quite a bit slower.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    Bromine?

    I don't get it. Why bromine?

    With CYA that high, you need to do a series of partial drains/refills to get it into the recommended range...30-50.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    what did your cya get so high from?
    I've just been doing what the pool store told me. I started out with CYA of 30 and now at 124. Well, at least according to their tests. My next purchase will be a good test kit. The printout telling me exactly what to do is very convincing that their tests were perfect.

    Bromine?

    I don't get it. Why bromine?

    With CYA that high, you need to do a series of partial drains/refills to get it into the recommended range...30-50.
    I read that it makes the water look and feel great, as well as making the water more stable. Honestly, I didn't know about my CYA problem until yesterday. Last report from my pool store was "Water's perfect".

    In hindsight, even if I had known about the CYA problem, I probably would still have gone with bromine. I've done a lot of work and spent a lot of money on the pool. Adding the bromine will make the pool more enjoyable while I correct the problem. And compared with what I've been spending at the pool store, it's really cheap.

    Just so I don't get beaten up too bad here, I know I've done some stupid stuff. I'm now comitted to learning the chemistry, getting a good test kit and taking the care of the pool into my own hands. The pool store will become the place where I buy inflatables and what not.

    And for what it's worth, my water really looks and feels great, even with a blown pump the last three days. Maybe it wouldn't have stayed that way. But I'm trying to not let a few bad numbers detract from my enjoyment. As it is, I almost grabbed a shovel and started filling the thing in when the pump died.

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    don't believe anything you read about pool care outside of this forum. if you want better "feeling" water than add salt and borates. bromine is not the way to go. you will have problems sooner than later, not to mention the cost.
    alternative-sanitizers-and-chemical-free-pools-the-truth-t3025.html

    "Next, bromine! Bromine can be an effective sanitizer in an indoor pool or hot tub but is not a first choice for a pool exposed to sunlight. Bromine cannot be stabilized against UV light like chlorine can which makes it a poor choice for outdoor pools.. It is also a known sensitizer and has a harsh, chemical smell that many find offensive. If used in conjunction with ozone it can form bromates in the water, which are a suspected carcinogen in drinking water."
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    I still recommend a series of drains/refills. This will bring the CYA level down and lower the bromine levels, over time you should be able rid the pool of bromine...it will take time though...

    Stick to chlorine, keep reading Pool School.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    if you want better "feeling" water than add salt and borates. bromine is not the way to go.
    OK... this is where my lack of expertise in such things will be apparent. When I said "Bromine", I meant "Borates".

    Not sure how I got the two confused. It's Borates that I've been adding... Not Bromine. I don't even know what Bromine is.

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Am I on the right track?...

    Topics Merged for consistency by Modertator

    On a 15,000 gallon plaster inground pool, I started with:

    TC: 6
    FC: 5.6
    CC: .4
    CYA: 80
    PH: 7.4
    TA:150
    Borates: 18

    I drained as much water as I could stand... maybe 10% (Lower CYA)

    Added about 2 gallons of muratic acid (lower TA, prepare for Borax)

    Added 6 boxes of Borax (Raise Borates)

    Added 2 gallons of bleach (knock out CC)

    When adding the water back in, I sprayed the water on to the surface of the pool to hopefully provide some airation.

    This morning my CYA and TA did not seem to change that much. I guess that is not surprising, since I wasn't that agressive with my water drain, and I added the Borax. (Without doing anything, I would have expected my TA to jump as much as 60)

    Also, my pH does not seem to have bounced back completely... is at 7.2.

    At this point, do you think I should do anything more drastic then a couple cannon balls in the deep end to further adjust the chemistry? I think I would be best served waiting till next weekend before running any more test other than chlorine.

    At this point, my main concern is the pH. Everything else should at least be better than before.

    Thanks in advance.

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Am I on the right track?...

    it's really hard to tell with what you posted. it looks like you did several things, none of them fully. can you repost with the numbers you got after the TA lowering, etc? borate level? are you sure you followed the borate addition instructions? .4 cc's is no big deal.
    it almost seems like this post covered a month of work in a few sentences with no structure/timeline to understand it, and only one set of test results from before you even did anything.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    Please keep all your posts on your pool's issue on one topic, multiple threads get too confusing.

    My advice would be for you to focus on one thing at a time. Don't worry about doing any more borate addition, get your CYA level down first.

    As they stand right now, your TA and PH are fine where they are and it won't hurt to focus on your CYA/chlorine.

    You need to continue with the series of partial drains/refills to bring it into range. Once your chlorine issues have stabilized, you will have a better idea of how your pool's demands and can tackle other issues, like borates. But before you add any more borates, you will need to Lower the TA, first. But that can and should wait, otherwise you are pouring chemicals and money down the drain thru the lowering CYA process.

    Lastly, how were these test results obtained? Trust me, having your own test kit will make your pool ownership much more simple. What is your CH reading - this is a plaster pool so your CH level is important.

    Please add your pool's info to your signature line. Go to User Control Panel, then Profile, then Edit Signature.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    Like FPM said: Finish the drain/refill process to address CYA first. Maintain chlorine but don't do anything else until you're done with draining.

    Because... anything else you add (like borates) will be reduced by the draining process as well.

    After you have decided to stop draining, THEN you can start on fixing pH/TA. Once you have that done, THEN you think about borates (because once you add borates, it will be harder to adjust pH/TA).
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Getting rid of CC...

    listen to poolmom she knows her Sh?? she will walk you through it and you will be on your way with a crystal clear pool. in other words a TFP
    and yes mom I am home... pool is great
    live in eastern washington state
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