Baquacil Side Discussion

[anthonypool89]

Changed my mind about converting back to chlorine....going to go at least another season with baquacil. Having added several doses of Ahhsome over a month ago, since that time the water has been great - no sign of any mold or slime. Perhaps some sort of coincidence, but I think this product may well be the answer if all the other chemical balancing is maintained properly. Next year will tell. Can't think of any other products to use. See everyone next spring!!

 

[domct203]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

Changed my mind about converting back to chlorine....going to go at least another season with baquacil. Having added several doses of Ahhsome over a month ago, since that time the water has been great - no sign of any mold or slime. Perhaps some sort of coincidence, but I think this product may well be the answer if all the other chemical balancing is maintained properly. Next year will tell. Can't think of any other products to use. See everyone next spring!!

Man, I give you a lot of credit... I would have dumped the Baqa a long time ago.

Do me a favor, track your chemical spending next season, everyone says how expensive Baqa is, I'm curious to see that.

 

[Leebo]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

Man, I give you a lot of credit... I would have dumped the Baqa a long time ago.

Do me a favor, track your chemical spending next season, everyone says how expensive Baqa is, I'm curious to see that.

As Jason mentioned before, we used Baqua for about 15 years before trying TFPC. I’ve got a spreadsheet somewhere at Home showing costs, but here is a pull numbers out of a hat estimation of our season for a 24,000 gallon pool.

Baquacil Oxidizer: We would frequently use double what the manufacturer would suggest due to constantly fighting cloudy water. A normal month would be about 5 Gallons a month at $15 a bottle.

Baquacil Sanitizer: I don’t remember the exact number here but memory says about 2 bottles a month at about $35 a bottle.

Baquacil Algaecide: We tried about every type they sold thinking this was the magic pill. It wasn’t. A good estimate is about 1-1.5 bottles a month at anywhere from $15-$30 a bottle.

DE: Woth Chlorine our DE filter maybe needs cleaned once every other month. Using Baquacil weekly DE changes were common, even with “clear” water.

End of the year $500-$700 was very common depending on how lucky we were.

 

[domct203]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

As Jason mentioned before, we used Baqua for about 15 years before trying TFPC. I’ve got a spreadsheet somewhere at Home showing costs, but here is a pull numbers out of a hat estimation of our season for a 24,000 gallon pool.

Baquacil Oxidizer: We would frequently use double what the manufacturer would suggest due to constantly fighting cloudy water. A normal month would be about 5 Gallons a month at $15 a bottle.

Baquacil Sanitizer: I don’t remember the exact number here but memory says about 2 bottles a month at about $35 a bottle.

Baquacil Algaecide: We tried about every type they sold thinking this was the magic pill. It wasn’t. A good estimate is about 1-1.5 bottles a month at anywhere from $15-$30 a bottle.

DE: Woth Chlorine our DE filter maybe needs cleaned once every other month. Using Baquacil weekly DE changes were common, even with “clear” water.

End of the year $500-$700 was very common depending on how lucky we were.

Holy cow! I spent less than $70 on chlorine last year. This year I switched to a SWG, and only spent about $20 on chlorine before I setup the SWG, and about $30 in salt.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

Perhaps the cooler temps are helping you out as well. Cooler water is less conducive to algae and mold growth. I think you’ve got a 50/50 chance of having the same struggles next season when your pool is warmer.

But, since Ahh-some seems to be helping your pool, you might as well enjoy the pool water while it’s still clear

 

[anthonypool89]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

Yeah except that the water the past 2 weeks has been back up to 80+. 83 today. I have a heater and use it frequently once the cooler temps set in. I'm sure you're undoubtedly right though. I've always found that I have more trouble with biofilm issues when the water is in the higher 80s. Like you also said....perhaps a 50/50 next season. See what happens.

- - - Updated - - -

Man, I give you a lot of credit... I would have dumped the Baqa a long time ago.

Do me a favor, track your chemical spending next season, everyone says how expensive Baqa is, I'm curious to see that.

I think my average per season is $300-400. The financial end of it is really not an overriding factor for me. I'm more interested in what works well and what I feel comfortable using.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

30-37C (86-98F) is the optimal temperature range for the growth of mesophilic bacteria (the largest sub-group of common environmental bacteria).

Chlorophytes (green algae) and Cyanobacteria (blue-green algae) have optimal growth rates at ~29C (84F) whereas molds and fungi tend to prefer cooler water temps, about 25C (77F).

The Ahh-some should help to breakdown bacterial and fungal biofilms and allow the Baquacil sanitizer to more effectively eradicate the pathogens.

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

30-37C (86-98F) is the optimal temperature range for the growth of mesophilic bacteria (the largest sub-group of common environmental bacteria).

Chlorophytes (green algae) and Cyanobacteria (blue-green algae) have optimal growth rates at ~29C (84F) whereas molds and fungi tend to prefer cooler water temps, about 25C (77F).

The Ahh-some should help to breakdown bacterial and fungal biofilms and allow the Baquacil sanitizer to more effectively eradicate the pathogens.

The Ahh-Some product mentioned in the previous post that is working out well, Anthonypool89 post, is our Pool formula and not the Hot Tub Plumbing Cleaning product. Our pool product is a Water Clarifier and bio-cleaner that seems to work,very effectively with Bacquacil. We have quite a few users who have had none to very few issues after using our Ahh-Some Pool Clarifier & Bio-Cleaner on a maintenance basis. The pool product is also less cost than the hot tub plumbing cleaner. We have fielded calls from consumers who are confused as to,what to get. There are some advantages to Bacquacil pools over standard chlorine pools. So, if you are using Bacquacil and want to eliminate the mold and slime issues, you now know that our product works.
Thanks for the positive reviews on our Ahh-Some products.

 

[anthonypool89]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

Keep the encouraging thoughts coming...after (at least the middle part of) this year's swimming season, I need the good vibes....

Ahhsomeguy- would you suggest continuing to use 2 containers per addition or go back to just 1?

 

[Leebo]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

The financial end of it is really not an overriding factor for me. I'm more interested in what works well and what I feel comfortable using.

I've frequently looked back and tried to see how I feel Baquacil could improve their system, and maybe a product like Ahh-Some could help for when the users run into the normal Pink Slime. To me however the key issue that still isn't addressed with the Baquacil system is proper testing. Currently the only drop based test I know of is the K-1725 from Taylor that will let the user test for both the Hydrogen Peroxide (Oxidizer) levels and the Biguanide (Baquacil Algastat) levels. At $125 this test falls right into Baquacil price point.......expensive. If I were to make a suggestion to any user who is greatly set on using the Baquacil line I would HIGHLY suggest they purchase this test. Without it you're more or less just dumping in chemicals hoping they work.

We have fielded calls from consumers who are confused as to,what to get. There are some advantages to Bacquacil pools over standard chlorine pools.

If I may ask a question here, from the calls you have fielded from consumers, what are the advantages they listed to you that Baquacil has over Chlorine pools? I'm always looking to learn how to improve and if there's something Baqua can do better, maybe we can learn from it. I wish I could say I could find the good in the system looking back, but I simply cannot. All I see is an expensive product that unless the end user is truly allergic to chlorine, should be avoided at all costs.

Keep the encouraging thoughts coming...after (at least the middle part of) this year's swimming season, I need the good vibes....

Ahhsomeguy- would you suggest continuing to use 2 containers per addition or go back to just 1?

How frequent are you needing to use this product?

 

[anthonypool89]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

30-37C (86-98F) is the optimal temperature range for the growth of mesophilic bacteria (the largest sub-group of common environmental bacteria).

Chlorophytes (green algae) and Cyanobacteria (blue-green algae) have optimal growth rates at ~29C (84F) whereas molds and fungi tend to prefer cooler water temps, about 25C (77F).

The Ahh-some should help to breakdown bacterial and fungal biofilms and allow the Baquacil sanitizer to more effectively eradicate the pathogens.

Now wait...something doesn't make sense. I thought that the molds and fungi (of which categories both pink slime and white water mold fall under) would be more likely to cause a problem when the water is much warmer? At least that seems to have been my experience. IF, however, the biofilms that cause problems for me accumulate more in cooler water then I should have more of a problem at the beginning of the season. The greatest problems this year with very stubborn mold/slime on the walls and in the DE grids occurred during the times when the water was probably around 80-88. Also, I still think that the busier the farmers are in the fields surrounding our property (on all sides except one - the pool is really a stone's throw from a very actively-worked field), the worse things are in the water.

Quite honestly, I don't care which bacterias and molds and other environmental products entering the water prefer which temperatures as long as I can keep them at bay with a minimal amount of extra work. Going over the entire surface of the pool with an automotive cleaning cloth draped around my pool brush got a bit old after about the 5th or 6th time (not to mention the number it does on your arm muscles). And, cleaning the grids every 5-6 days for awhile there got pretty old too. I swear I spent more time for a period of several weeks working on the pool then actually swimming in it or just relaxing on the deck. So the past few weeks - since the Ahhsome - HAVE indeed been AWESOME! LOL! Hate to have to close it up soon. Looks like our weather is heading much cooler by the end of the week.

 

[anthonypool89]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

Leebo - Following the instructions on the container - one container per month - except that, as per discussions I had with the company, they suggested trying 2 containers since I still had some issues with mold a few weeks after the very first time I used it. Hard to totally know if the Ahhsome is the complete cure-all or not...probably not since there are so many variables - not the least of which is certainly having the pool sit right next to farmland. Sometimes the clouds of stuff generated from whatever is done to the fields just blows right across my hedge and obviously winds up in the water. Frustrating..but...it is what it is.

- - - Updated - - -

Ahhsomeguy....curious...similar to what Leebo has asked....what are the advantages of a baquacil pool over chlorine that you speak of? I have a highly vested interest (understatement) in knowing what the specifics are behind your statement. I like baquacil for the ease of product use and how the water feels, etc.. but I really have 'gone through the ringer,' so-to-speak, with the mold and slime issues on and off over the past probably 15 years or so.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Exactly how does a bacqua pool feel different from a chlorine/SWG pool? My pool water feels silky almost with 2800-3000 ppm of salt.

And you say you like its "ease of use" ?!? It sounds like a royal headache to have to use various potions and lotions to just get mold anyway.... Chlorine is *much* easier to use/pay for/ enjoy

Maddie

 

[domct203]

........
And you say you like its "ease of use" ?!? It sounds like a royal headache to have to use various potions and lotions to just get mold anyway.... Chlorine is *much* easier to use/pay for/ enjoy......

I see the same. Oxidizer, sanitizer, algaecide, etc., and an expensive test kit.

My SWG pool is about as easy as it could get.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

Now wait...something doesn't make sense. I thought that the molds and fungi (of which categories both pink slime and white water mold fall under) would be more likely to cause a problem when the water is much warmer? At least that seems to have been my experience. IF, however, the biofilms that cause problems for me accumulate more in cooler water then I should have more of a problem at the beginning of the season. The greatest problems this year with very stubborn mold/slime on the walls and in the DE grids occurred during the times when the water was probably around 80-88. Also, I still think that the busier the farmers are in the fields surrounding our property (on all sides except one - the pool is really a stone's throw from a very actively-worked field), the worse things are in the water.

Quite honestly, I don't care which bacterias and molds and other environmental products entering the water prefer which temperatures as long as I can keep them at bay with a minimal amount of extra work. Going over the entire surface of the pool with an automotive cleaning cloth draped around my pool brush got a bit old after about the 5th or 6th time (not to mention the number it does on your arm muscles). And, cleaning the grids every 5-6 days for awhile there got pretty old too. I swear I spent more time for a period of several weeks working on the pool then actually swimming in it or just relaxing on the deck. So the past few weeks - since the Ahhsome - HAVE indeed been AWESOME! LOL! Hate to have to close it up soon. Looks like our weather is heading much cooler by the end of the week.

Pink slime is not a fungal mold, it is a bacterium from the genus Methylobacterium. It is found in soils and it probably blows into your pool from all of that farm activity you describe. Pink slime is a mesophilic bacteria and will grow better at warmer temperatures.

White water mold is a true fungal mold that forms a thick, white mucus-like membrane that is impenetrable to almost all sanitizers. Only by breaking it down with strong surfactant chemicals can it be killed by halogen or non-halogen based sanitizers.

The temperatures I quoted above tend to be "optimal" temperatures - meaning fastest growth rates. Bacteria and fungi can have a very large range of growth temperatures as there are algae species that grow easily in the cold waters of the southern and northern oceans.

 

[anthonypool89]

Re: So what is a Bacquacil?

Pink slime is not a fungal mold, it is a bacterium from the genus Methylobacterium. It is found in soils and it probably blows into your pool from all of that farm activity you describe. Pink slime is a mesophilic bacteria and will grow better at warmer temperatures.

White water mold is a true fungal mold that forms a thick, white mucus-like membrane that is impenetrable to almost all sanitizers. Only by breaking it down with strong surfactant chemicals can it be killed by halogen or non-halogen based sanitizers.

The temperatures I quoted above tend to be "optimal" temperatures - meaning fastest growth rates. Bacteria and fungi can have a very large range of growth temperatures as there are algae species that grow easily in the cold waters of the southern and northern oceans.

I stand corrected...yes...pink slime is bacterial. My mistake.

 

[anthonypool89]

Exactly how does a bacqua pool feel different from a chlorine/SWG pool? My pool water feels silky almost with 2800-3000 ppm of salt.

And you say you like its "ease of use" ?!? It sounds like a royal headache to have to use various potions and lotions to just get mold anyway.... Chlorine is *much* easier to use/pay for/ enjoy

Maddie

Can't speak to SWG pool since I've never swam in one. I guess my thinking of the baq chemicals as being easy to use comes from my previous experience using chlorine - just did not like it at all. I know the TFP method uses liquid chlorine - bleach or whatever - but back in the day I used those dreaded chlorine ("stingy") sticks. Hated those things. For proper measurement had to cut them sometimes - practically gagged doing so. I'm sure I'd find it easier using a liquid. I still have a piece of one in a plastic container in my pool chemical basement. Almost afraid to take the lid off it - it's been down there for years - a momento of my sojourn with chlorine LOL All that being said, I still might go back to chlorine if the Ahhsome doesn't pan out. Can't think of anything else to use that I haven't already tried. With the farmland issue I face, I truly believe that it doesn't matter much which sanitizing system I use. I'll probably still encounter issues along the way every season. What really turned me off to chlorine (besides the intolerably strong smell of the sticks) was winding up in a chlorine-demand situation. When it got to the point where I would have had to add like 100 lbs. of chlorine, I decided to pursue another system. My friend, who also has a pool nearby and was on chlorine the same time I was, experienced the exact same thing. We both converted to softswim and never went back. He does better than I do with biguanide, however, since he has a sand filter.

 

[Oly]

Interesting thread.

I have had a small 245gal fiberglass spa for nearly 10 years now and used the Soft Soak System (biquanide) until I moved it last spring.
The pool I have now is on the TFP system and I decided to start the spa with chlorine (dichlor\bleach system) as I recently filled the spa after the move.
The cost for the Soft Soak was high and used conditioner, oxidizer, sanitizer, filter cleaner, stain and scale control in addition to the pH, TA and CH additions.
Pros = seemed to work OK, no odors, no residue issues, clear water, seemed easy after initial fill up but always drained and refilled every 4 months. Also shut down during summer.
Cons = $$$, used guess strips, did have sticky water line deposits (think maybe body lotions) periodically and clean up every 4 months was a chore that required a special filter cleaner to removed sticky deposits on tub, filter and filter housing.

I am just now dialing in my spa chemistry so it is to early to compare. I also plan to drain and refill every 3.5-4 months. I do like having both the pool and spa on the same system and testing regime.

I am not interested in changing my pool TFP system and am hoping I find success with my spa now too, we'll see.

 

[Leebo]

For proper measurement had to cut them sometimes - practically gagged doing so.

Using chlorine in the manner you did before, you were bound to fail. Using Baquacil in the manner you are now, you are bound to fail. It has nothing to do with the product rather than manner in which you are using it. In both instances you weren't/aren't accurately dosing the amount of chemicals you are adding to the water. You're simply guessing without proper test results. The backbone of TFPC isn't liquid chlorine, it's the test results and knowledge of what you're adding. Without a proper test kit and accurate results be it from a FAS/DPD kit or the K-1725 you are simply guessing at what you are doing.

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

Using chlorine in the manner you did before, you were bound to fail. Using Baquacil in the manner you are now, you are bound to fail. It has nothing to do with the product rather than manner in which you are using it. In both instances you weren't/aren't accurately dosing the amount of chemicals you are adding to the water. You're simply guessing without proper test results. The backbone of TFPC isn't liquid chlorine, it's the test results and knowledge of what you're adding. Without a proper test kit and accurate results be it from a FAS/DPD kit or the K-1725 you are simply guessing at what you are doing.

To Anthonypool89: We used the (2) 6 oz Ahh-Some containers initially to help eliminate the mold and/or slime problem and as a means to build a residual for our gel. Going forward, you need to use just one 6 ounce container of the "POOL" formulation to maintain. You asked about advantages of Bacquacil over Chlorine. Well, I must tell you up-front that I am a chlorine fan over Bacquacil. That being said, there are some key reasons as to why some people prefer it. I know of pool and hot tub owners who cannot go into a chlorine vessel. They break out with skin rashes because of the halogen environment. Bacquacil is a different animal. The water definitely is softer and silkier on the skin. When the Bacquacil pool is 100% maintained the water is so very pure and the clarity is in high definition. Environmentally, Bacquacil is a friendlier product as well. Of course another big advantage of Bacquacil is that the components are less susceptible to variations caused by sunlight and varying pH. Look, if you don't mind the extra cost and you have had good success with the product, stay on it.
There are many many happy pool and hot tub owners on the product. They love it!