New Pool Owner - Want to Install SWG - Anode Question

[Catanzaro]

I believe the anode is for corrosion in the pool and at the pump. It probably will help the gas heater, but chemistry is your best bet. I know people who replaced heaters after 7 years, and others have them for 20 years and they are still going. Again, without a timeline, hard to tell why.

 

[mknauss]

Low ph harms heater cores. Not salt.

You can add an anode. Just do not put it in the water.

Keep your pH under control and you should not have issues with your heater.

 

[kchinger]

I like the idea of keeping the zinc out of the pool, but I reached out to the heater manufacturer and they said if you use an anode (they don't say you need to) to use one that plumbs in.

The only thing they require is a check valve after the heater.

So then, I dunno about the anode. Maybe I'll ignore them and bury one anyway.


Edit to add:

Do people ever put a bypass around the heater for the summer? Would that make it last longer? Not sure if it's worth it.

 

[mknauss]

Do people ever put a bypass around the heater for the summer? Would that make it last longer? Not sure if it's worth it.

I have seen that on the forum. I would have an issue with the water sitting in the heater core. Again, as long as you manage your pH the heater core should not be harmed.

Why the check valve? Mine does not have one --

 

[kchinger]

I have seen that on the forum. I would have an issue with the water sitting in the heater core. Again, as long as you manage your pH the heater core should not be harmed.

Why the check valve? Mine does not have one --

They want it there to prevent highly chlorinated water flowing back into the heater. I think with a salt water generator that turns off when the pump turns off it's probably unnecessary, but when I replace the heater eventually I'd hate for them to deny a warranty because I didn't have one.

I'm getting one of the good Jandy ones that doesn't appear to add much flow impediment, so it's a cheap insurance I think.

 

[Catanzaro]

I had a check valve installed before the chlorinator, but after the SWG. The SWG has no check valve from the heater. SWG create chlorine at the cell, and it is continuous.

Chlorinators hold water and the tablets keep dissolving causing backflow (Thermal I believe is the term). I do this with my heating system. Some of the 2nd floor rooms valves are open. As hot water moves through the any of the system, it kind of mixes (constantly throwing off heat). For sure, 3" tablets without a check valve would leak back into the heater. If my first floor can bring heat up to the 2nd floor straight up at least 8', then a 2' run will work the same (If this makes sense).

 

[kchinger]

I agree with you, the way the salt water generator makes chlorine means it really probably isn't necessary, but the manual is clear. I don't really see a downside other than $50.


Edit : well, I read the older manual again, and it does say automatic chlorinators and chemical feeders. Maybe that isn't meant to apply.

However, I went and downloaded a newer rapak manual and it specifically says salt chlorinators.

I still don't think it's actually necessary, but they're the ones with the warranty decision.

 

[Catanzaro]

After this thread was started, I checked the Hayward Owners manual and did not see a check valve at all. Attached is the AQR9. No check Valve. This is good, as mine is not there. I guess manufacturers vary. Even if the flow valve failed, the unit should shut off as the best way to wire is to the timer.

Although, some people recommend external, unplug and bring in for the winter. Probably not a good idea.

 

[kchinger]

It's the heater company that wants one, not the cell company. You'd need to check your heater manual.

 

[Swampwoman]

Kchinger, I've actually discussed ths requirement, TWICE now, with Raypak directly. Despite contrary advice from every knowledgable person I respect, they insist they mean to include SWG as well in the check valve requirement, and cite possible backflow when backwashing, shutdowns, etc.

The down side of a check valve is that it will increase dynamic head and reduce flow, which will offset some of the savings I've seen with my variable speed pump. In my case, my heater has been installed for a year. It does operate perfectly, but it is also possibly shedding scale despite lower ch but likely due to high sequestrant levels (the spent product of which does react and chelate with metals.)

I am also in the irrational position of feeling a need to retroactively install a check valve, so I understand your dilemma.

I will say that early on I had the pc board go out, quite likely in part due integration of the automation since it appended simultaneously to the install, and had no difficulty having the board covered under warranty. So don't take the requirement to mean they're crappy about standing behind the product overall....necessarily

BTW, I do have the pool tool inline zinc anode plumbed before the heater. Again, of questionable merit, but there's no question that the zinc corrodes. If you're going to do it, inline and bonded to the bonding loop is the only way that might make sense to me.

 

[Catanzaro]

BTW, I do have the pool tool inline zinc anode plumbed before the heater. Again, of questionable merit, but there's no question that the zinc corrodes. If you're going to do it, inline and bonded to the bonding loop is the only way that might make sense to me.

Swampwoman:

Excellent post. This makes sense to me. I only recommend on the outside, because it is easy to install for the average person, and costs less than $35. In addition, Chem Geek recommended this to me as I was using the Frog System for the first season, at least the mineral cartridge. Sold my tablets and switched over to liquid. Now onto SWG. Because of the FROG, Richard was concerned about possible staining and effects in my pool. Now, that I think back, an inline may be also another option because of the salt cell. Everything is bonded, from the heater, to control box, to pump, and back to zinc anode in the moist soil. Now, the water coming off the heat pump, keeps the area moist (no more watering).

What are your feelings about the Zinc Anodes that are attached directly to the ladder? Also, here is the post I am referring to you if you are really bored. Post # 16.

Sequence of chemicals and possibly any effects on what happened to screws at light.

 

[kchinger]

Swamp,

I went with the outside installation option because I think it's probably unnecessary in the first place and I'm just doing it for peace of mind, and I'd rather not have zinc in the pool if I can help it.

For the check valve, I agree with you, but I think I'll play by their rules. Probably doesn't matter on a 20 year old heater, but I think the head loss of the Jandy swing type is low enough I can deal with it. If that's what gives me flow issues I probably didn't have enough to begin with.

26k gallons - Heated - CircuPool RJ-60 SWCG - In-Ground Concrete/plaster - DE filter (Anthony & Sylvan) - Built 1989
TF-100 Test Kit and K-1766 Salt Kit

 

[Catanzaro]

For the check valve, I agree with you, but I think I'll play by their rules. Probably doesn't matter on a 20 year old heater, but I think the head loss of the Jandy swing type is low enough I can deal with it. If that's what gives me flow issues I probably didn't have enough to begin with

Why not install the check valve and remove the internal parts. Place the cap back on with the screws and now there should be no flow restrictions. I know this is cheating, but down the road, you could also put them back in the event there is a warranty issue.

Jandy 7305 180-Degree, 2-Inch to 2-1/2-Inch Check Valve is what I have installed. Nice looking valve.

 

[kchinger]

Why not install the check valve and remove the internal parts. Place the cap back on with the screws and now there should be no flow restrictions. I know this is cheating, but down the road, you could also put them back in the event there is a warranty issue.

Jandy 7305 180-Degree, 2-Inch to 2-1/2-Inch Check Valve is what I have installed. Nice looking valve.

It crossed my mind, but I wasn't going to write it down.

26k gallons - Heated - CircuPool RJ-60 SWCG - In-Ground Concrete/plaster - DE filter (Anthony & Sylvan) - Built 1989
TF-100 Test Kit and K-1766 Salt Kit

 

[Swampwoman]

I didn't see you write it down

 

[mknauss]

Be sure you know where you are going to put your flow switch. It needs 12 inches of straight pipe before it without any appurtenances (check valves, valves). You are lucky that with your brand SWCG you can move the switch around.

Take care.

 

[kchinger]

Be sure you know where you are going to put your flow switch. It needs 12 inches of straight pipe before it without any appurtenances (check valves, valves). You are lucky that with your brand SWCG you can move the switch around.

Take care.

Yeah, I need to read the manual tonight, I've got about 36 inches between the heater and an elbow where it turns to head down to the returns. I'm hoping to squeeze everything in there, including the check valve, flow switch, and salt cell.

26k gallons - Heated - CircuPool RJ-60 SWCG - In-Ground Concrete/plaster - DE filter (Anthony & Sylvan) - Built 1989
TF-100 Test Kit and K-1766 Salt Kit

 

[kchinger]

Looks like I should have room for everything with a bit to spare. If necessary I can put the flow switch after the cell and the cell counts as part of the 12 inches of straight.

So I close on the house Monday and have family coming for labor day and we'd like to swim. If I'm thinking of it right I need to test the water Monday, do the math for cya and salt and pH, add what I need to, and then Tuesday afternoon I can install the salt cell, retest for salt since it should've dissolved, add a bit more if necessary (I want to be low rather than having to drain, right?), turn the cell on by Wednesday, test Thursday, dial in the chlorine, test Friday, dial again maybe, we should be able to swim Saturday, right?

The pool has been managed by another company and there are slow release floating chlorine things in the pool now. Should I leave them until I turn on the salt cell? Or like the day before I turn it on?

26k gallons - Heated - CircuPool RJ-60 SWCG - In-Ground Concrete/plaster - DE filter (Anthony & Sylvan) - Built 1989
TF-100 Test Kit and K-1766 Salt Kit

 

[PebblePool]

I am a Computer Engineer and had no problem hooking up my AQR-15. Keeps me at a solid 5.0ppm with 60ppm CYA, and a Crystal Clear pool in the Florida sun. I concur about not covering DIY installs under warranty. So many DIYers "know what they're doing" and do a bad install. One of the big gotchas with the AQR-15 is the little bridge between the 120v and 240v lugs, the install instructions cover how to wire it, but it could be overlooked. Another little gotcha is that the panel setting may not match the cell that you've actually bought; the instructions cover it, but it could be overlooked as well.

Read the instructions 10 times, triple check your work, and enjoy the results of a DIY job done right the first time.

Says.. the Electrical Engineer... All you need to do is read through a lot of our old threads and you will find a multitude of reasons why most major manufacturer's of Pool Equipment don't particularly like the average everyday Joe installing their equipment. It is hard enough to find enough qualified technician and installers.

My "pull-it-out-of-my-rear-guess" is that Warranty claims would triple if they encourage DIY installations. And that 95% of those claims would be bogus.

Good luck with your project, sounds like fun...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[PebblePool]

If your FC/CC (relative to CYA), and pH readings are good from your TF-100, just swim. I wouldn't worry about salt, just chlorinate with bleach and get past your Labor Day event. You can install the SWCG, and leave it off and perfect your SWCG setup after the holiday.

Looks like I should have room for everything with a bit to spare. If necessary I can put the flow switch after the cell and the cell counts as part of the 12 inches of straight.

So I close on the house Monday and have family coming for labor day and we'd like to swim. If I'm thinking of it right I need to test the water Monday, do the math for cya and salt and pH, add what I need to, and then Tuesday afternoon I can install the salt cell, retest for salt since it should've dissolved, add a bit more if necessary (I want to be low rather than having to drain, right?), turn the cell on by Wednesday, test Thursday, dial in the chlorine, test Friday, dial again maybe, we should be able to swim Saturday, right?

The pool has been managed by another company and there are slow release floating chlorine things in the pool now. Should I leave them until I turn on the salt cell? Or like the day before I turn it on?

26k gallons - Heated - CircuPool RJ-60 SWCG - In-Ground Concrete/plaster - DE filter (Anthony & Sylvan) - Built 1989
TF-100 Test Kit and K-1766 Salt Kit