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Thread: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

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    Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Man, what a joy and a frustration it was for me to find this site yesterday. Frustration that I didn't find this site 4 years ago when we bought our house (and inherited the pool with it) and joy that I finally found the place. I came across TFP after searching for a good way to stop leaks in my pool hose fittings of all things. Yesterday I probably spent a good 6 hours reading through all kinds of posts and a few more hours this morning.

    As I said, we have had the house and pool now for 4 years and it has been a constant frustration for me.

    I just took my pool cover of this past Saturday (if you are in New England, you know what a rainy and cold start to the summer it has been) since the temperatures haven't warranted going in the pool yet. Once again, I was unable to get the cover off the pool without dumping all the pollen buildup and leaves that were on top into the water, but that is for another post I guess.

    I placed an order for the TF100 test kit last night and am eagerly awaiting its delivery this week so I can get a good reading on my pool water levels. Up until now I've bounced back and forth between using test strips and a cheap little droplet tester from the local store. As a result, I haven't taken any readings yet this year after finding this site because I'm sure they won't give me an accurate and complete picture of my pools chemistry at the moment.

    Anyways, enough rambling. I do have a few questions after reading through a lot of the site. First, I'll happily do away with the chorline tablets and all that nonsense and convert to the BBB method. I just have a few questions on procedure and on my current equipment.

    As a point of reference, here is a photo of my pool from this morning.



    I took the cover off on Saturday night (today is Monday morning) and filled the water level back up and hooked up all my equipment. Yesterday, Sunday, I added four gallons of pool shock because I know there is now all kinds of organics in my pool that fell in when I removed my pool cover. This was before I found TFP so I used the following pool shock instead of bleach:



    Judging by the ingredient listing on the front, it appears to me that its fine since its 12.5% concentration. I still have 3 gallons of this left as well. After having the filter running since last night, I came out this morning and vacuumed and scraped the bottom of my pool with my leaf net rake and cleared at as much debris as I could. Still can't see the bottom so I'm sure there is quite a bit still in there. I took the above photo after I was finished.

    While, I'm on the subject, this is the type of vacuum I have for this pool. I just hook it up to a hose and skimmer plate. I'm hoping someone tells me this vacuum is junk and guides me to a better way to vacuum an AG pool.



    My real questions are this. Once my kit arrives and I test my levels, I can begin using BBB in earnest. From what I've gathered the first and most important step is getting to the point where I'm only losing 1.0 or less of FC overnight. This is achieved by shocking with bleach and vacuuming/cleaning out the pool. Once I'm able to get to losing 1.0 of FC overnight, do I just let my FC slowly lower down from the high shock levels into the "acceptable" range for my CYA level and then maintain that level from there? Also, at what point is it safe to actually let my family use the pool after I'm maintaining the >1.0 FC drop overnight.

    Also, when I start the shock cycle, should I try to get my CYA level up to 40 first and then do the shock based on that, or do I just always do the shock cycle based on whatever my CYA level is at?

    If my pH is low (and TA for that matter) do I wait for the shock cycle to get stabilized and then raise my pH level, or do I need to get all the tests in the correct ranges at once at the start of the process?

    Lastly, when trying to find all the information to fill out my signature, I was having a hard time trying to figure out the details for my pump/motor. Here are two pictures of that I took that I'm hoping will help someone lead me in the right direction.




    I can't tell from the labels what the HP is (it seems the HP line has --- in it) and other needed info for my pump.

    Sorry for the huge first post, but I'm thrilled to finally have found this site and looking forward to the promised "ease of maintenance" in the future and am ready to stop being frustrated with my pool and actually start enjoying it after 4 years.
    18' round AG vinyl | avg. 3'9" deep | ~7,600 gallons
    Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Model S166T | Hayward 1hp Pump

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Just as a matter of principle, I went ahead and just did a chemistry test with the current test kit I have.

    Here is the kit I used "Poolmaster test kit"



    Here are the results:

    FC > 3.0 - test only reads up to 3.0
    CC > 3.0 - only reads to 3.0
    pH > 8.2 - only reads to 8.2
    TA - 100
    CH - no test
    CYA - no test
    18' round AG vinyl | avg. 3'9" deep | ~7,600 gallons
    Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Model S166T | Hayward 1hp Pump

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Welcome to TFP CP

    That shock you have pictured actually works well with BBB...it's just bleach in a 12.5% concentration vs 6% in bleach. On your vac head...it should work fine...I don;t like vacuming so I purchased a pool rover jr, which I highly recommend for maintenance, but on the heavy stuff...use the head you got. I see you are in the NE, so if you have a local Namco/Branch Brook pool store...the run specials on refurbished pool rovers around Sept...I picked mine up for $149.

    On clearing your pool...you'll probably get the kit in the next day or two. Dave (TFTESTKITS.net owner...also posts on here under username duraleigh) is in NC, so shipping is fast. I would wait until you get the kit so we can get a baseline of what your water is doing....In the meantime, keep doing what your doing with the vacuming and filtering, then we'll shock away and get you swimming.

    If you have a pool store nearby, you could also ask them to test your water....either way post your pool store or TF100 test results here and we'll point you in the right direction.

    Your pump is probably at least 1hp, but it appears to be a two speed...either way it will work fine

    Welcome
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Yeah, Namco and a local pool supply store in town is where I have gotten my supplies so far. Thanks for the info on that Robelle shock. I'll do some price comparisons and see what is my most economical option for bleach/liquid chlorine to buy.

    For the first 3 years I used a solid winter cover that the previous owners lefts, but it had several tears in it so I trashed it. This past winter I used a new mesh cover to see how it would fare. It seemed to work out well, but I had a hard time getting it off. I was unable to pump all the water off the top of it for easy removal because as I pumped the water from the top, the cover kept lowering because water would seep up from the bottom. That is how I ended up dumping all kinds of **** into the pool upon removing the cover this weekend.

    I'll try to run up to my local pool place and get a full water reading sometime later today or tomorrow, but I dont mind waiting till my test kit comes as well.
    18' round AG vinyl | avg. 3'9" deep | ~7,600 gallons
    Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Model S166T | Hayward 1hp Pump

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Here's the pump info. If you look close at the faded label above the motor data plate you can barely make out "HP 2 / .25 SPL. If you look up the A.O.Smith cat number it's actually a 1.5/.25hp 1.0 SF two speed motor. It's 1.5hp on high speed and 1/4th hp on low speed. They like to uprate those pumps so it's plausible that the pump mfg would call it a 2 hp.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    Here's the pump info. If you look close at the faded label above the motor data plate you can barely make out "HP 2 / .25 SPL. If you look up the A.O.Smith cat number it's actually a 1.5/.25hp 1.0 SF two speed motor. It's 1.5hp on high speed and 1/4th hp on low speed. They like to uprate those pumps so it's plausible that the pump mfg would call it a 2 hp.
    awesome. thanks for the help. I didnt even noticed that faded label
    18' round AG vinyl | avg. 3'9" deep | ~7,600 gallons
    Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Model S166T | Hayward 1hp Pump

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Hey, welcome to the forum.

    Your kit will ship today and you'll get an email from FedEx this afternoon with an expected delivery date. (Thank you)

    Than is one monster pump for your pool. Fortunately, it looks like your filter ios large enough to handle it. Once you get your pool cleared up (you will....soon) you should only run that pump on low, then high only when you vacuum.

    Do not be surprised if the pool store tests are way off from the accurate testing you will do on your own. In fact, I would predict that the results you're getting from your current kit may be more accurate than what you get from the pool store.

    1. Bring your pH down into the mid 7's now with muriatic acid. above 8.0 is way too high and you need to change thjat first.

    2. One you start the shock process, we will want you to stick with it by frequently testing and adding more chlorine until your pool is crystal clear. You are going to underestimate how much bleach/chlorine is required so prepare yourself.

    3. You'll be able to swim just as soon as you finish shocking. I would swim during shock.....others advise more caution.

    4. Test for CYA, and add enough to get it to around 30ppm......then shock. Make a final adjust to around 40+ppm after your water is clear.

    5. Adjust TA last if necessary (Get your pH down now)
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    I have always run my pump on low because it seems to not have enough water in the side bucket when on high. Meaning, when I crank to high, it seems like the side fill bucket doesnt look like it is feeding enough water to my filter. I could be completely mistaken on this point though.

    What size/speed pump is recommended for a pool of this size? (24' AG vinyl)
    18' round AG vinyl | avg. 3'9" deep | ~7,600 gallons
    Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Model S166T | Hayward 1hp Pump

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    1hp two speed or 3/4 hp single should serve you just fine...mine is a inground type 1/2hp pump and serves us perfectly...water runs through a solar panel as well with no issues
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    I have a 2 HP 2 speed and I run it only 24/7, on high for vacuming.

    If you are getting air in the pump basket on high, that is unusual. It may be that the seal around the lid is bad, and you are sucking air. Also there is a drain valve at the bottom that may have wiggled loose.

    If you only get air in the pump on high when vacuming, then you don't have a good seal with the vac plate over the skimmer (assuming you are using a vac plate.) Or, there is a leak in the vac hose, allowing air in, OR...you didn't prime the hose with water before you begin to vacume. Attach the hose end to the vacume head, and the other end of the hose to the return flow. The return flow will force all the air thru the hose, and the vac head will lift up as you see the air bubbles escaping. Then it will sink, and the bubbles will stop. Keeping the hose end under the water, move over to the skimmer opening and attach the hose to either the vac plate or in the skimmer hole (whichever method you are using) keeping the hose end down will keep the hose primed and you shouldn't see air entering the pump basket.

    Welcome to the forum
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    I may have worded my post incorrectly. I'm not getting air into the side bucket at all. What I mean is that when I run on high, the side bucket doesn't stay full to the top. When the pump is off or running on low, the side bucket stays full pretty much all the way up to the lid.

    When I switch over to high and the pump is running full blast, the sidebucket probably only is half full or less. Is that a problem or is that normal because of the fact that the pump is running so hard?
    18' round AG vinyl | avg. 3'9" deep | ~7,600 gallons
    Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Model S166T | Hayward 1hp Pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    It means you are pulling air into the pump basket. Some where you are sucking air on that side - called a "suction side air leak".

    It is not normal and you shouldn't run the pump on high with the basket full of air. You need to find the source of the air leak.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    It means you are pulling air into the pump basket. Some where you are sucking air on that side - called a "suction side air leak".

    It is not normal and you shouldn't run the pump on high with the basket full of air. You need to find the source of the air leak.
    ok. thanks. I do have a tiny drip from the hose fitting that connects to my pump basket, but not enough that shoudl be causing that issue. Could it be because my skimmer bucket and/or hoses arent large enough for that size pump?

    I'm going to try and convert all my hoses to either hard plumbing (PVC) or flex-pvc with rubber fernco's sometime this week because I'm tired of dealing with and replacing the cheap "accordian" style hoses from the pool store. Plus the fittings always seem to leak for me.

    If I do go with hard plumbing, I assume I'm going to have to do some kind of calculation to know what diameter pipe to get?
    18' round AG vinyl | avg. 3'9" deep | ~7,600 gallons
    Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Model S166T | Hayward 1hp Pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    That "little drip" could absolutely be the source. You'd be amazed.

    I'm not sure on the pipe sizes....someone with more exp. on that will be along shortly....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    That "little drip" could absolutely be the source. You'd be amazed.

    I'm not sure on the pipe sizes....someone with more exp. on that will be along shortly....
    ok, good to know. I'll wait till I have everything sealed up tightly before running on high again and work on that issue from there.
    18' round AG vinyl | avg. 3'9" deep | ~7,600 gallons
    Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Model S166T | Hayward 1hp Pump

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Here is a shot of my pool from this morning.



    This is after three sessions of vacuuming and leaf raking yesterday and another session this morning. The water has turned from cloudy green to cloudy blue so I'm hoping/assuming this is because I've been able to successfully clean out most of the solid organics like pollen, leaves and sticks from the bottom of the pool. I know there is still stuff down there but until the water clears up a bit and I can see the bottom it makes it hard to do good vacuuming and raking.

    I wasn't able to get out yesterday but I'm hoping to make a run this afternoon to get my water tested at a store until my TF100 arrives and to pick up some muriatic acid to get my pH down.
    18' round AG vinyl | avg. 3'9" deep | ~7,600 gallons
    Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Model S166T | Hayward 1hp Pump

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Good, you are making progress. You have to be diligent and keep the chlorine up and keep vacuuming and brushing, even if you can't see.
    Buggs

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
    In floor Polaris cleaning system
    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Just got back from the local pool store. I had them do a water test for me and these are the results they came up with.

    pH - 7.9
    TA - 90
    CYA - 20
    CH - 210
    TC - 0
    FC - 0

    I wasn't that impressed as all he did was stick a test strip into my water and then put it into some kind of scanner machine.

    I also purchased a gallon of muriatic acid and a 5 gallon jug of liquid chlorine (10.5%) from them. The chlorine was $14 so I'll price shop around to see if buying bleach is a better deal, but I think the last time I checked a gallon of 6% bleach was $2.

    When I got home I added 15 oz of the muriatic acid I bought (20 Baume) and am letting that run through the filter now. I'll check the pH again in 2 hours.

    After that, judging by the CYA chart for a CYA reading of 20, my target FC should be 3 and my shock FC should be 10. When my pH is back in acceptable range, I'm assuming that is they time to start the shock process to get my pool to the level of only losing > 1 ppm of FC per night. Is this correct?

    If so, according to my calculations from the poolcalculator, my next step would be to add 142 oz of my liquid chlorine to the water to get it to a shock level of 10.

    A few questions. First, should I try to raise my CYA at all or is it fine at 20? Second, I'm a little fuzzy on the process of doing the over night > 1ppm loss test.

    I'm supposed to keep shocking the pool during the day and make sure I have a shock reading of 10 (or whatever it should be) when I take my last reading at night? And then in the morning make sure I have lost less than 1. If I've lost more, then I should get the FC back up to 10 by the end of the day and check again at night and in the morning repeating the process until I have lost > 1 overnight?

    Is this correct? Once I lose less than 1ppm overnight, I can just gradually let my FC get down to the target level of 3 or 4 and then hold it there all summer, right?
    18' round AG vinyl | avg. 3'9" deep | ~7,600 gallons
    Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Model S166T | Hayward 1hp Pump

  19. Back To Top    #19
    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    chances are that's a good deal on chlorine. usually any liquid chlorine is cheaper than bleach (comparatively).
    get the ph down and continue to shock. the main problems I'm seeing is that you need to stay at shock level as much as possible. not once a day. if you can check and add hourly, that would be ideal. the longer you stay at shock level, the faster it will clear. you need to be checking and adding a minimum of two times per day (before work and in the evening for instance). also, you are right in saying less than 1ppm fc loss overnight, but that's < not >. keep the pump running 24/7 also.
    I think if you raise your cya it 30 it may help, but I wouldn't go above that while you're shocking.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    cp,

    Be careful of that 20 CYA from a test strip. That's frequently very, very inaccurate. Do you have another test source to verify it or has it tested at that level in the past?
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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