SWG should only need to run 4.5hrs but can't maintain at 8.5hrs?

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KarenNJ

KarenNJ

0
May 7, 2017
301
Northern NJ
Starting a new personal thread so not to clutter the SWG run time one.

My salt generator (40K gallons) is plenty big enough for our pool (14500 gallons). I used the calculator and based on that, it is telling me I should only need to run it at 75% for 4.5hrs! Right now I am running it at 100% for 8.5hrs (pump on low) and still losing .5 - 1 ppm a day. I knew I would need to run the pump longer with the SWG but I didn't think I would need 9+ hours on 100%. The water is crystal clear, no issues since the day we filled the pool (this year). My PH keeps creeping up (TA is high) so I add MA about every 2 weeks to lower it back down. We had a ton of rain the last week and had to drain the pool a couple times so the salt level is a bit low but I will add more today. What could I be missing? I scrubbed all the pool yesterday and vacuumed. We get very little stuff in there. We probably have 3-5 people swimming a couple times every day so I know our load is higher than some. It gets full sun all day and I am in northern NJ.

Current Test Results
temp - 84
FC - 2
CC - .5
PH - 8.2 (will lower with MA today. It slowly goes up due to TA)
TA - 200 (slowly working to lower this)
CYA - 70
Salt - 2700

Edited to add: I am using test strips to check the salt levels. My SWG has never given me an error that the salt level is too low. I am not sure how accurate the strips are but my pool maint buddy says he likes them. The water deff tastes salty. Prior to the rain it was at 3000.
 
Your current test shows a FC way too low for your CYA. Follow the Chlorine/CYA chart for SWCG pools.

Run an OCLT to see if you have something growing in your pool water. Most likely that is the issue.

Take care.
 
Yes, I know my fc is too low, that is why I am asking for help, hehe. The SWG is not keeping it steady. I have to keep adding liquid bleach every so often or doing a super chlorinate on the SWG to get it back up. I will do a OCLT tonight.
 
I would look at your SWG manual. I googled and the Circupool SJ series manual I found says the minimum level of salt is 3000ppm, with the "ideal level for operation" being 3500 ppm. Sounds like you could be running right on the low margin. I would get a good salt test such as the Taylor K-1766 and confirm your measurements and make sure your level is ideal per the manual, then go from there.

I currently run my Pentair IC40 (also a 40k gallon cell) cell for 9 hours/day at 100% to keep my FC ~ 6ppm with CYA at 80, but my pool has 2x the water (30k gallons). You might also consider raising your CYA to 80ppm, might help. But make sure your salt level is correct first with a good test kit like the Taylor.
 
Before I read the replies, I was going to suggest you add some salt and see if that fixes the SWG issue. Maybe the low salt is wrecking the SWG efficiency and it isn't producing like it should. Add some more salt either way.

I just ran some calcs and the SJ-40 running 100% for 8.5hrs produces about 5.2ppm in your pool (14000 gallons). That should be more than enough chlorine for the day's use. If you are still loosing the FC battle, then the next step would be an OCLT to see if you loosing FC to organics. Make sure your SWG is off and wont turn of for the test. Try that tonight.
 

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With a cartridge filter you most likely have minimal loss of water other than evaporation. So the salt you put in is there. Up to you if you want to spend more money for a Taylor salt kit but my view is as long as the SWCG is happy I am happy. If the SWCG starts saying low salt and you have not removed a bunch of water, I would question the SWCG.

Take care.
 
I'd ask your pool maint buddy to test your salt level with his method, if he uses strips have him use one of his strips, just for an independent test, maybe you got a bad batch of strips, 20% of the comments on Amazon for those strips are "1 star don't buy" type comments, just sayin'.....or if you have a pool store in your area take a water sample and have them test it for salt.

The K-1766 kit works good for me but I have the SpeedStir which I think helps a lot.

How many pounds of salt have you added to your pool? What was the expected salt level in ppm after adding?
 
I think I added 11 bags (484lbs) but I honestly can't remember. My pool maint buddy gave me the initial and I was short of 3000 on the test strips so I added another bag. Since then we have had to take probably 4-5 inches out of the pool due to heavy rain. I know I need to keep the level at 3000 minimum. I may take a sample to the pool store just to see how it compares to my test strips. I can get the taylor ones as well.
 
With a 14k gallon pool and expecting 4" freeboard, that equates to 280 gallons per inch of depth. 4 Inches of rain equals 1,120 extra gallons diluting both your salt and your FC. Not to mention all the organics that the rain is washing out of the air and into your pool. The SJ-40 should have sufficient capacity to do it, but the added dilution changes the expected load. I'm having to juggle my percentage output for the same reason. I run my FC a point or two high for a day or two after a heavy rain.
 
Ok, I am running the OCLT. Starting with 8 FC and .5 CC tonight (10:30pm). I had to add bleach today because we had 11 kids in there for a few hours. I let the pump run on high most of the day and vacuumed after they left so I know there is very little stuff in there. We shall see what tomorrow morning brings.....
 
I would have liked to leave more time between tests but I lost 0 FC in a 8.5hr period overnight. Water temp is 83. Still .5 CC. I will add another bag at least of salt and see if that helps. I just can't understand why my SWG needs to run 100% for so long. I do have 3 kids who are in the pool maybe 3hrs a day total. They are not filthy when they go in and they always get out to use the bathroom. I don't consider it super high load but add an adult in here and there I suppose it may be higher than normal. I get very little leaves in the pool but we did have construction going on for a bit so maybe the concrete dust and dirt that may have gotten in had something to do with it as well. I have been vacuuming pretty regularly. I will also bump my CYA up to 80.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, the rain/draining as mentioned above didn't help.
 
Karen,
After re-reading your initial post, something occurred to me. Could you have an issue with calcium buildup/scale in your SWG cell? Your test results said pH was 8.2 (in scaling range) and that you add acid only about every two weeks. You may need to manage your pH more closely with a SWG. Have you ever removed your SWG and inspected it for calcium buildup? I am new to SWGs myself and have not had to acid wash mine yet, but I would think calcium buildup on the cell plates could lower the chlorine output efficiency, but I don't have first-hand experience to back that up, maybe others can chime in.

Before adding any more salt, if you have never inspected your SWG cell, I would remove it and inspect for calcium buildup/scale per your manual from manufacturer, and clean it if needed. I suggest managing your pH closer, test routinely and when pH climbs above 7.8 (i.e. to 7.9) add acid to lower to 7.6. If you don't have Borates in the water, you may have to test pH daily or every other day until you get a handle on it. And learn how to use the CSI (Calcite Saturation Index) of the PoolMath calculator to calculate the CSI, and always keep it between -0.3 to 0 to minimize buildup of scale in your SWG.

I still recommend getting the Taylor drop test for salt to compliment your excellent TF-100 kit.

If you "micromanage" your pH (monitor pH closely/daily/bi-daily and when it gets up to 7.9 add acid to lower to 7.6 or 7.5) that will likely start to lower your TA from its current level (200) naturally.

Assuming that your water Calcium Hardness is around 350ppm and you have no Borates in your water, using your data (pH=8.2, TA=200, CYA=70, Temp=84, Salt=2700), PoolMath calculates your CSI as +0.94 which means "Scaling likely" (greater than 0.6 suggests problems in all pools).

I bet you have scaling in your SWG that is lowering its chlorine generation efficiency (if you have never cleaned it).

I would think the concrete dust you mentioned could also raise Calcium Hardness (CH) which would make the CSI/scaling problem worse. You should test your CH with your TF-100 kit.
 
My SWG has a clear cell housing and it looks the exact same as the day I put it in (only a few weeks ago). It also is "self cleaning" so it is supposed to require less cleaning than other models. I am sure I will still need to clean it at times but not as much as others do. My last CH test was 300 on 7/7. I will do it again now.

For the PH, I test it daily and add acid only when it gets to 8.2. It may be a couple days before I get the acid in but I am keeping an eye on it. I just added the acid again this morning. So it is creeping up but nothing crazy. I will do the TA test as well today to see how much it went down with the latest acid addition.
 

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