To convert or not to convert

[WyldLyle86]

Apologies from the start for the long post, but I just do no know what course of action would be best to take.

I have used baquacil for 2 years after a liner replacement. It is about 16x32 above ground, and is only opened seasonally. (Wisconsin, probably Late April to Late September or so). Cartridge filter.

I have never had what I consider an algae bloom, nor have I had mold/slime that seems to be described. My water is very clear. I do get brown dirt/debris on the bottom, kind of slippery in texture, and some green accumulation on the walls/stairs.

This year, I tried to be diligent with the baquacil, but due to an inability to get an actual baquacil number other than the strips which I don't trust, i over added, but still had a lot of the brownish/green debris on the floor and some on the walls. I added algacide and that seemed to help diminish the amount of brown some, but it is still there.

The pool store recommended vacuuming to waste (Which I have done at least 4 times) but this doesn't seem like a good long term solution. (And requires lots of water to accomplish)

I have added nothing to the pool for 3 weeks now, and the baquacil sanitizer level per the test at the pool store is still at 50, oxidizer at 0. My water is still very clear, but the brown is on the floor and some on the walls, which I am sure will require a vacuum to waste. (As a side note, when I vacuum through the cartridge, it almost immediately shoots the dirt back through the return and fouls the water up something fierce. I don't know if I am not supposed to ever vacuum through the filter, or if it is gummed up by the baquacil or overloaded?). Filter has been running 24 hours a day for over 3 weeks straight.

My consternation is that it is already mid July, I will be gone for 3 days next weekend, and I don't know if I should just deal with the dirt via vacuuming for now, or if I should convert, or if the brown debris/dirt would happen with either chemical, I should just stay with baquacil until I have issues, as I think its working?

As you can tell, I am an indecisive uninformed pool owner and I am looking to remedy that and get on a track where I can understand my pool and tend to it with less frustration/more confidence that I am not just pouring chemicals in and hoping for the best.

Last thing, I bought chlorine tablets a chlorninator, and non chlorine shock per an article about the conversion that I read. Now here I am seeing add bleach to bring chlorine up, is the bleach acting as liquid chlorine? Again, I may as well be starting from scratch here, in addition to deciding about the baquacil.

I attached pictures of the bottom of the pool and the stairs. Maybe someone can tell me what I am looking at and how troubling it is or isnt.

Thanks a lot in advance for any help you can give.

 

[AimeeH]

Hello and welcome to TFP

That Looks clearly like algae and not a mysterious dirt substance. Unfortunately I don't know how one would clear that up with the baquacil system of products. We do have a few on the forum who have some experience with it who might chime in.

If you're interested in converting to chlorine, there is a whole category of posts about the process. And here is an article in pool school to start with. Pool School - Convert Your Baqua Pool to Chlorine

Welcome

 

[Leebo]

First and foremost, WELCOME!!

I’d like to start with a long term suggestion. Give up on Baquacil. As I’m sure you’ve learned it’s VERY expensive and very difficult to make work on a daily basis. Long term switching to chlorine will make your life easier and save you a good bit of money.

So how do you get there? That’s a tough question for us to answer this time of year. A Baqua conversion will likely consume about 2-3 weeks of your swim season thus cutting into your Pool time. On the other hand attempting to clear your pool using Baqua will likely cost you as Baqua products are costly. In the end when you convert (or if for that matter) is up to you.

If you decide to convert now please post back and I’ll offer further assistance. For now though I’m going to assume you wish to attempt to clear your pool using Baqua. For starters I’d added the Oxidizer up to recommended levels. Off hand I cannot remember the suggested levels. After you add this brush the pool well to allow the Oxidizer to mix well. Continue to do this as it will likely clear up each time. Keep in mind the algae will consume the Oxidizer for test frequently.

Additionally it sounds like your filter could use a good clean. Post back what make/model they are and well help you out with that.

 

[WyldLyle86]

With regard to switching, I am very open to it, and have bought some items for it, although now I am not sure if I have the correct stuff. I had read to let the levels get to 0, and then go with chlorine free shock for 48 hours etc etc. I am reading on this site on the pool school suggestion page that bleach is the first answer, and that requires a lot of consistent dedication. My levels after 3 weeks are still at 50 for baquacil. Is the chlorine free shock an alternative to the bleach, or something else entirely? Further more, when adding chlorine, is that liquid chlorine, or is that the bleach, or is that the tablets through the chlorinator.

As far as the algae on the pool, is that something that chlorine based product would help with, assuming correct chemical levels etc, or is that just part of the cost of doing business and having a pool?

 

[WyldLyle86]

I did clean the filter recently, I have one that was chemically cleaned waiting, and a new cartridge for after the conversion, whether I do it now or next year.

 

[Donldson]

Welcome to TFP!

I'm not an expert on the Baquacil conversion but I have seen enough to know that following the process taught here is the best case. Attempting to supplement that with outside ideas can cause problems both minor and extreme. I have seen attempts to speed up the process cause month-long delays in finishing. Listen carefully to anything Leebo or another conversion expert asks or instructs and it will be as painless as humanly possible. One thing I do want to say though:

As far as the algae on the pool, is that something that chlorine based product would help with, assuming correct chemical levels etc, or is that just part of the cost of doing business and having a pool?

There are people with chlorine pools that might claim algae is a part of having a pool. Let me be very clear, this is not the case with a TFP pool. Things happen and people can get lazy or forgetful (guilty), but when properly managed algae is not an issue. And for those times where things might slip, the solution is very simple and does not involve seeking out expensive new things to add to the pool. I would encourage you to make the change sooner than later and, again, to follow the process carefully.

Again, welcome to the forum!

 

[Leebo]

Attempting to use chlorine free shock or other commonly sold products can cause major frustrations to a new user. For simplicity I would stick with liquid chlorine only during the conversion. Liquid chlorine and bleach are the same thing only different strengths. More details can be found in the ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry which I HIGHLY suggest reading and understanding before attempting a conversion. The algae you’re seeing will be taken care of during the conversion or we can attempt to clear it up using Baquacil.

 

[anthonypool89]

This may be overstating the obvious, but since you don't mention having tried it, I thought I'd ask if you've attempted to simply brush or wipe those deposits to see if they come off? Looks like algae to me. I am a long-term baquacil user and so would suggest using the initial dose of their regular algicide product and then really going after it with the brush - much more effective than vacuuming for stuff like that. Typically when my pool is green - like after opening in spring - the algicide really helps greatly. After a few days, once my water is cleared up, all the algae that was in the water seems to almost fall out of suspension and is laying on the bottom ready to vacuum.

I totally relate to your mistrust of the baquacil test strips! I don't like them. I recently ordered some softswim strips since they have a more detailed color chart for comparing and determining levels of oxidizer and sanitizer. There is also a Taylor kit that uses reagents to test accurately for both. If I stay on baquacil I'll probably get one of those. The "issues" that you're likely to encounter with baquacil is the recurring pink slime and white water mold. Those problems, along with often cloudy water, plus the higher costs of running a baq pool are what generally influences most people to convert back to chlorine.

Good luck with clearing it up!

 

[WyldLyle86]

I am going to have to consider when I want to switch, given I couldn't really start until the beginning of august. Seems like a waste to do it then, and I would be better served to do it in the spring, but we will see.

In the meantime, looking ahead to the future, the chlorine tabs and chlorinator I bought in preparation, is that something I will be able to utilize down the road or should I try to return those items? Obviously the non chlorine shock is a not needed item, but the tabs and chlorinator?

 

[anthonypool89]

If you're planning on converting back to chlorine, I would think the items you refer to could be of use. I'm the wrong person to give any sort of advice about all things chlorine-related and also conversion from baq to chlorine since I am doing all I can to try and stay with the baquacil system that I've been on for at least the past 15+ years. There are many aspects of it that I like with the exception of the recurring mold and slime problems.

 

[WyldLyle86]

Ironically I have never had chlorine before, haha. And I don't get the slime/mold that everyone refers to. Yet. I have been on it 2 years, but I do get the aforementioned algae issues and they seem to be recurring without fail. That then leads to a vacuum to waste process, refill the pool, and start over at algae on the bottom.

 

[domct203]

I am going to have to consider when I want to switch, given I couldn't really start until the beginning of august. Seems like a waste to do it then, and I would be better served to do it in the spring, but we will see.

In the meantime, looking ahead to the future, the chlorine tabs and chlorinator I bought in preparation, is that something I will be able to utilize down the road or should I try to return those items? Obviously the non chlorine shock is a not needed item, but the tabs and chlorinator?

Welcome to the forum.

Here at TFP we recommend using liquid chlorine, aka bleach, for daily chlorination as it adds nothing but chlorine and a very small amount of salt (all chlorine adds salt). Trichlor tablets also add stabilizer (CYA), which will build up over time and require higher and higher levels of chlorine to keep the pool clean. We recommend adding CYA separately until your optimum level is reached, then maintaining FC with bleach.

The tablets can be saved for vacations, and will stay well in a tightly closed container.

 

[WyldLyle86]

In the case of liquid chlorine then, the chlorinator will not be used? I have to believe it wouldn't work with liquid chlorine.

 

[Husky25]

That looks like algae to me as well. Algaecide is an important additive in a a Baq pool, not so much in a chlorine pool. Algaecide (even the Baqucil branded variety) always produced a layer of foam for me. That and a mold issue following a liner and water change, prompted my conversion and it was one of the best things I could have done. Not only as a pool owner, but a home owner.

Regarding the chlorinator: No, it really isn't used in a pool under TFPC, though you could use tabs on the short term basis. Vacation, for instance, or at the beginning of the season to bump CYA without purchasing separate stabilizer. Is the chorinator already inline? Can you return it? When I use tabs, I just put them in a floating chlorinator, which cost $10 or less and doesn't mess with my plumbing. On the other hand, your CYA theoretically wouldn't get to an unmanageable level until it is ready to be closed, at which time I assume you do at least a partial water dump as it is.

Two other things to consider for a possible conversion is 1) if you use CDX and 2) the current swim-ability of the pool. CDX throws a wrench in the typical conversion because it apparently it protects the BQ chemicals from being oxidized by the chlorine. The latter is important because if swimmers are avoiding your pool in these hot summer days anyway, then you are just spending a boatload of money for people not to swim. You would probably save a nominal amount of money on the conversion if you did it in the spring, but I wouldn't let the fact that the pool would be unswimable during the conversion be a determining factor, if it is being avoided anyway.

 

[WyldLyle86]

The chlorinator is not installed and probably could be returned at this point. I was under the impression people used the tabs and the chlorinator would help to not have a daily adder, as life gets very busy. I like the idea of not being tied to the pool for daily chemical additions.

Regarding the CYA build up, I do about a 1/4 to 1/3 water dump at the end of the season as winter draining, to clear the returns and skimmer basket, and obviously add new water in spring. Does this change the opinion of tabs through a chlorinator? Does this type of set up make water management/testing more difficult?

I was using CDX when I did my chemicals, but I haven't done them in about 3-4 weeks. The pool store baquacil test shows sanitizer at 50 and the oxidizer at 0, but IDK where the CDX would come in. If I had CDX in that recently, perhaps it wont allow a conversion? Furthermore, my pool is not dirty enough to turn people off, and the water is very clear. Brushing will pick up the debris, as does vacuuming to waste. So without the conversion I could make it until spring.

On a related note, should you be able to vacuum through a cartridge filter? If I do, it shoots out dirt through the return, and I was wondering if that was related to the baquacil building up in the filter, or if the algae is too heavy and overloads the filter. It seems like you shouldn't have to vacuum to waste every time.

Again, this is all new and I am trying to learn and get myself set up to proceed with the pool in the best way possible for trouble free swimming.

 

[Husky25]

Full time tabs are certainly more conducive for pools in the Northern United States that require winterization. Typically because of what you just said, we lower the water level to blow out lines, add antifreeze, and cap them. The water added in the Spring has no stabilizer in it, so even if your pool was on the high side in the fall, CYA is at least half that in the Spring. My Dad in Massachusetts has used tablets for 30 years. Before that, he used powder broadcasted over the surface of the water. I told him about this site and what it professes a couple years ago and he still sticks with his way, which is fine. It works for him. I found that once my pool was clear and in balance, I spend very little time on maintenance.

I never used CDX when I used BQ so I honestly don't know how long it lasts. However, I did read in a different thread earlier that it does not breakdown, evaporate, or otherwise dissipate with the oxidizer or sanitizer, so in that sense, it is similar to CYA (i.e. need at least a partial water dump for a smoother conversion).

If your pool is not turning anyone off, I'd probably wait for a Springtime conversion.

Finally, I have a sand filter. So I am not as familiar with cartridges, but one consideration is when you last changed them out. Could you possibly have a hole in the cartridge?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

With Baquacil sanitizer levels at 50ppm and CDX in the water (there's no way to measure it), converting your pool now would take weeks and would be a very frustrating ordeal. You'd likely spend the rest of the summer you have converting the pool. I would not do it now. I suggest you wait until next spring and that when you close the pool you drain it as far as you can that is reasonable safe for your liner. Then, when the spring comes, I would fill it partially and then drain it some more. The main ingredient in CDX does not go away except through dilution and discharge. It also greatly interferes with the chlorine conversion process making it much longer. So you would be best to dilute and drain away as much of it as possible before starting the conversion. Also, to make it easier to convert in the spring, do not add any chemicals at closing. Yes, this will likely cause you to open the pool to a green swamp but if you add chemicals at closing then you're only setting yourself back.

Good luck with the rest of your season....

 

[pookiesunshine]

.....
I was using CDX when I did my chemicals, but I haven't done them in about 3-4 weeks. The pool store baquacil test shows sanitizer at 50 and the oxidizer at 0, but IDK where the CDX would come in. ...

uh, the baquacil system requires weekly additions. i see you let the oxidizer get to zero. you need to add this now. the sanitizer itself is not enough to prevent algae. there are numerous pamphlets on how much and when to test/add.

If you cannot maintain even weekly additions to your pool, you might consider hiring someone to take care of it. if you want to convert to chlorine, tell them you want to use the TFP method. or close your pool. TFP is great but it is not effortless, just easy. sorry to be blunt.

 

[WyldLyle86]

I haven't added because I was contemplating converting. However, the process has taken longer and now I think it will be a spring issue. I was adding the dosages weekly until my conversion thoughts started.

 

[pookiesunshine]

Good deal then. as roseanne rosannadanna would say, nevermind.